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Bad Form Eventing Nation... Blatant Copyright Infringement

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  • Bad Form Eventing Nation... Blatant Copyright Infringement

    You know I realize of late I have been called, "snarky" and many other unflattering terms. Mostly because I see things and tell it like it is, in my opinion.

    I have sat by and watched and watched as EN has grown from a fledgling eventing blog to a fully sponsored and Advertising Income producing popular site. And since it now has advertisers and regular traffic of amazing size it's time to start asking for the viewers sake and that of the advertisers to clean up your act.

    Today you posted a blatantly infringed picture of Boyd and Neville. The photo, while lovely, is not yours to share. It belongs to Amy Dragoo, the photographer who shot it and owns the copyright to it. But you didn't even bother to include a photo credit. Now here's where it gets ironic. Amy has already commited to DONATING a portion of her sales for the rest of 2011 to the True Prospect Recovery Fund. So by stealing this image you just robbed Boyd and the gang of funds that could have gone their way if you had done, as is legally required, and paid for the use of the image.

    Now clearly you haven't read Amy's own blog...specifically the entry about Copyright Infringement.. I'll link it here so all may understand:

    http://akdragoophoto.com/view-all-po...copyright.html

    Now why I am saying something now?? Simple... Amy is a regular contributor to the Chronicle, Practical Horseman, Dressage Today, Horse & Hound, and many others. She recently won the Alltech A+ Award. She works to bring beautiful images of the top tier of our sport on down to the baby green grasshopper eventers home to us. And she does so with grace while watching as more and more people think it's fine to steal what she has done in the mud, rain, snow, heat and 23 hour days all through the year.

    Shame on you. Shame on you for taking away from one of our own.

    I am not surprised though. No, you have stolen images from Getty Images, who have a fleet of lawyers ready to make you pay. You have violated terms of use of websites from all sides of the globe as you simply right click a picture, save it and throw it on EN without a care in the world to the person who shot it and who works to pay for their lives and their families with the piece of work that was good enough for them to get paid in the first place where it was originally posted. But not good enough for you to respect their effort and ownership rights.

    It's blatantly ironic that when I emailed you last week and asked how you verify that the sport horse nation ad pictures were properly licensed and paid for, you replied to me that
    I have appreciated the concern you have shown for copyrighted material with respect to Eventing Nation on posts on the Chronicle Forums. Ultimately we are all working to coexist in this new media world together and we have a vested interest in protecting our copyrighted material as everyone else does.
    Which side of your mouth are you talking out of now kids?

    You cannot be the leader and a source for eventing enthusiasts of all ages and provide such a poor example of conduct in the new digital age. You're demonstrating, by example, why photographers are dissapearing from the shows. Why watermarks on proofs have gotten bigger and say things like "This image is stolen if not viewed on XYZ.com." And moreover, you're saying to the populous... it's ok to lie and steal if it makes you look better.

    Well it's not ok. It's wrong, it's poor form, and thankfully for Amy, who copyrighted this image, it's illegal.

    And though I haven't spoken to her yet today, I am sure she will be contacting you as well. And hopefully what fees for infringment that you will be ordered to pay will make a dent in the ego that has ruled your errant disregard of copyrights for too long.


    For the rest of our forum members... please remember Amy is one of the few photographers out there still going to shows, still shooting in the elements and still willing to give you a nice pic for facebook when it's all you can afford after the entry fees.

    Flame me if you want, but all of this is truthful and very easy to prove.

    ~Emily
    Last edited by Xctrygirl; Aug. 5, 2011, 02:21 PM. Reason: spelling
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

  • #2
    If I bought the picture and I sent it to EN, it's mine, isn't it? Or would I need approval to send it from the photographer?
    Even duct tape can't fix stupid

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
      You know I realize of late I have been called, "snarky" and many other unflattering terms. Mostly because I see things and tell it like it is, in my opinion.

      I have sat by and watched and watched as EN has grown from a fledgling eventing blog to a fully sponsored and Advertising Income producing popular site. And since it now has advertisers and regular traffic of amazing size it's time to start asking for the viewers sake and that of the advertisers to clean up your act.

      Today you posted a blatantly infringed picture of Boyd and Neville. The photo, while lovely, is not yours to share. It belongs to Amy Dragoo, the photographer who shot it and owns the coyright to it. But you didn't even bother to include a photo credit. Now here's where it gets ironic. Amy has already commited to DONATING a portion of her sales for the rest of 2011 to the True Prospect Recovery Fund. So by stealing this image you just robbed Boyd and the gang of funds that could have gone their way if you had done, as is legally required, and paid for the use of the image.

      Now clearly you haven't read Amy's own blog...specifically the entry about Copyright Infringement.. I'll link it here so all may understand:

      http://akdragoophoto.com/view-all-po...copyright.html

      Now why I am saying something now?? Simple... Amy is a regular contributor to the Chronicle, Practical Horseman, Dressage Today, Horse & Hound, and many others. She recently won the Alltech A+ Award. She works to bring beautiful images of the top tier of our sport on down to the baby green grasshopper eventers home to us. And she does so with grace while watching as more and more people think it's fine to steal what she has done in the mud, rain, snow, heat and 23 hour days all through the year.

      Shame on you. Shame on you for taking away from one of our own.

      I am not surprised though. No, you have stolen images from Getty Images, who have a fleet of lawyers ready to make you pay. You have violated terms of use of websites from all sides of the globe as you simply right click a picture, save it and throw it on EN without a care in the world to the person who shot it and who works to pay for their lives and their families with the piece of work that was good enough for them to get paid in the first place where it was originally posted. But not good enough for you to respect their effort and ownership rights.

      It's blatantly ironic that when I emailed you last week and asked how you verify that the sport horse nation ad pictures were properly licensed and paid for, you replied to me that

      Which side of your mouth are you talking out of now kids?

      You cannot be the leader and a source for eventing enthusiasts of all ages and provide such a poor example of conduct in the new digital age. You're demonstrating, by example, why photographers are dissapearing from the shows. Why watermarks on proofs have gotten bigger and say things like "This image is stolen if not viewed on XYZ.com." And moreover, you're saying to the populous... it's ok to lie and steal if it makes you look better.

      Well it's not ok. It's wrong, it's poor form, and thankfully for Amy, who copyrighted this image, it's illegal.

      And though I haven't spoken to her yet today, I am sure she will be contacting you as well. And hopefully what fees for infringment that you will be ordered to pay will make a dent in the ego that has ruled your errant disregard of copyrights for too long.


      For the rest of our forum members... please remember Amy is one of the few photographers out there still going to shows, still shooting in the elements and still willing to give you a nice pic for facebook when it's all you can afford after the entry fees.

      Flame me if you want, but all of this is truthful and very easy to prove.

      ~Emily

      Isn't this Amy's fight?

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by LisaB View Post
        If I bought the picture and I sent it to EN, it's mine, isn't it? Or would I need approval to send it from the photographer?
        Lisa you only own the print.

        You would need to pay usage fees for an advertisement anywhere.

        You are not within the laws of copyright if you scan an image and send a digital copy. That is a no no.

        You must pay the photographers for usage outside of a picture hanging on your wall.

        Snoopy.... Amy is a friend of mine. And a good one. Just as I would hope one of my friends would have my back in a similar situation, I have hers. And a much more thick skin.

        I have watched EN steal pics since it's inception. This however was the last straw.

        ~Emily
        "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LisaB View Post
          If I bought the picture and I sent it to EN, it's mine, isn't it? Or would I need approval to send it from the photographer?
          I believe you bought the photo, not the rights to publish said photo in an advertisement, and I believe that some photographers would want a usage fee. I could be completely wrong though.
          Rhode Islands are red;
          North Hollands are blue.
          Sorry my thoroughbreds
          Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
            Snoopy.... Amy is a friend of mine. And a good one. Just as I would hope one of my friends would have my back in a similar situation, I have hers. And a much more thick skin.

            Okay, I see. Just wasn't clear as to why you were so upset over an IP that was not yours.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow Em, thank you for your efforts.

              You were correct in your assumption that I have not licensed this image to Eventing Nation, and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I had actually already seen it and sent John an e-mail.

              Copyright seems like a vague, elusive beast. Instead of hashing out every point, lets just leave it at, before you use an image you have not taken yourself for anything, it is best to check with the photographer about their terms first. DON'T ASSUME!!!

              Amy
              http://www.akdragoophoto.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LisaB View Post
                If I bought the picture and I sent it to EN, it's mine, isn't it? Or would I need approval to send it from the photographer?
                It might depend on the rights you bought?

                I've bought digitial pictures that specified either "personal digital use only, no printing" (so, FB, send to parents in email), others that were "unlimited personal use" (so blow up for my wall), others "unrestricted use" (put on my equine.com ad, maybe that would be ok for EN to publish?)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                  Snoopy.... Amy is a friend of mine. And a good one. Just as I would hope one of my friends would have my back in a similar situation, I have hers. And a much more thick skin.

                  I have watched EN steal pics since it's inception. This however was the last straw.

                  ~Emily
                  That's great that you have her back. If you were my friend, I'd be pretty upset that you took my fight public in such an ugly way. Being that you haven't talked to her today and the pic was just posted this morning ....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You know I realize of late I have been called, "snarky" and many other unflattering terms
                    You definitely just earned a notch in the snarky column (and a few others) from me.

                    Given that you didn't even bother to contact John and/or Amy directly, prior to your multiple paragraph rant, you didn't leave me with a very good impression.

                    You state that you have received an e-mail about EN's commitment to copyrighted material. Did you even bother to point out this very specific incident directly to him as being in conflict with his stated policy and give him a chance to correct it? .... or did you just decide to write a HUGE rant on an internet BB?

                    I also have to be honest that you haven't done Amy any favors, IMO. I will try to remember that you didn't talk to her directly, prior to your rant and not associate your post with her image.

                    Why is it so hard to try to resolve something directly first, rather than starting a thread like this?

                    While I certainly support our photographers quest to protect their work product and agree that there is an issue needing corrected on EN, I think you have shown far more "bad form" than anyone else associated with this thread.
                    Last edited by SevenDogs; Aug. 5, 2011, 03:01 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't want this thread to become a referendum on Xctrygirl. In this case, she is absolutely right about the "big picture" (pun intended).

                      EN is a wonderful site but has been loosey goosey with taking copywrited material since it began. In today's modern environment of blog proliferation it's all too common. John is a young guy and probably can't even remember when this was not the norm. People don't realize this, but on real professional websites, ALL PHOTOS ARE PURCHASED. That's why you see so many crappy stock photos (see Salon.com and Gawker.com for examples) - they are dirt cheap.

                      When EN was pretty below-the-radar I think they could get away with it. Now that it is selling ads I don't think the other publications and photographers - on whose backs EN is making its reputation and money - will tolerate it much longer.

                      I love EN and recognize that is comprised of a small, scrappy team, few members (if any?) are actually trained on these things. John is going to have to learn the life-lesson way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As someone who jumps through MANY hoops to obtain copyright permissions for images, I'm absolutely siding with the OP on this one. It's not that hard to follow the law, it just takes effort.

                        EN is an income-producing site, and sniping photos without permission is essentially making money from someone else's work. No different from stealing. But it's illegal whether or not you make money from it. I don't have any dogs in this fight and I still think it's appalling. Big Thumbs Down.

                        Is there some insider eventing buddy club that makes it okay to steal if it's someone you know on a first name basis, and that calling someone on breaking the law is now considered snarky?
                        where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wouldn't call you snarky here, Xctrygirl. A fair amount of content on that site and the choices that the main author makes are in fairly bad form.

                          He wants to help companies sell things to people by posting ads, both outside and inside his content, but still uses the site largely for gossip, occasionally goes after people who make strong remarks that don't agree with his agenda, and is a hypocrite about criticizing people for being inflammatory, and then posting plenty of inflammatory information and opinion himself. It's like amateur hour over there. Some of it I enjoy, but a lot of it has bugged me for a while and I don't visit nearly as often as I used to.
                          Fear is the rocket sauce.
                          Jack Black

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My point is and opinion is -- Have the guts and courtesy to GO DIRECTLY TO THE PERSON WITH THE ISSUE FIRST.

                            If you have done that and they don't fix it, then (AND ONLY THEN) is it appropriate to go public. It does not appear that the OP had the courtesy to contact John directly on this photo or even let Amy know and decide how to approach the issue.

                            Sorry, but I think the OP was WAY out of line and has earned some of her snarky titles over many posts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SevenDogs View Post
                              My point is and opinion is -- Have the guts and courtesy to GO DIRECTLY TO THE PERSON WITH THE ISSUE FIRST.

                              If you have done that and they don't fix it, then (AND ONLY THEN) is it appropriate to go public. It does not appear that the OP had the courtesy to contact John directly on this photo or even let Amy know and decide how to approach the issue.

                              Sorry, but I think the OP was WAY out of line and has earned some of her snarky titles over many posts.
                              THIS!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?
                                Rhymeswithfizz, your siggy about sums it up.
                                www.TerriMiller.com
                                Photos & Commissioned Paintings

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by LisaB View Post
                                  If I bought the picture and I sent it to EN, it's mine, isn't it? Or would I need approval to send it from the photographer?
                                  I wrote this article a while back after discussing the issue of copyright infringement with some photog friends. Maybe it will help clarify.

                                  Who owns that photo of your horse?

                                  It's oh, so easy to "right click" on an image and insert it into your blog. And I think there are lots of people who just don't know that it's wrong.
                                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This is disgusting.

                                    putting the matter at hand aside, why would you think that it is your right or place to put this on blast on a public forum rather than contacting the parties involved privately?!

                                    And for everyone who has such a strong opinion about copyright infringement on Eventing Nation, which of you have contacted John directly (recognizing that they are a small and inexperienced team) and offered to inform/educate/warn him about what the problems are??

                                    I think that unless people are acually going to do something to help a situation, they need to mind their own damn business. But that's just me...

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by eloquence09 View Post
                                      This is disgusting.

                                      putting the matter at hand aside, why would you think that it is your right or place to put this on blast on a public forum rather than contacting the parties involved privately?!

                                      And for everyone who has such a strong opinion about copyright infringement on Eventing Nation, which of you have contacted John directly (recognizing that they are a small and inexperienced team) and offered to inform/educate/warn him about what the problems are??

                                      I think that unless people are acually going to do something to help a situation, they need to mind their own damn business. But that's just me...
                                      Ah, another first-namer.
                                      The law is the law. Sounds like the blogger has been contacted numerous times by the OP about copyright infringement, yet he kept on sniping photos. How many friendly reminders should a person get before being publicly outed? I wasn't aware that there was law-breaking-warning-ettiquette.

                                      And just because I'm not the photographer, the rest of us who DO follow the law should mind our own damn business? Wow. Nice morals you got there.
                                      where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by eloquence09 View Post

                                        And for everyone who has such a strong opinion about copyright infringement on Eventing Nation, which of you have contacted John directly (recognizing that they are a small and inexperienced team) and offered to inform/educate/warn him about what the problems are??

                                        I think that unless people are acually going to do something to help a situation, they need to mind their own damn business. But that's just me...
                                        LOL, I'm not the internet police, and it's not my job to educate random website owners! And honestly I kind of thought maaaaaaybe John might be getting his photos legally. I don't know the behind the scenes stuff. But apparently he isn't.

                                        Comment

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