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If you were a first time CANTER buyer . . .

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  • If you were a first time CANTER buyer . . .

    So, hypothetically speaking, if you were to fall in like with a CANTER horse how would you proceed? Do you just contact the person in the ad? Do they have a preferred vet for PPE or do you provide your own? Etc . . .

    Any info from experience buyers in appreciated! I want to take the plunge but want some guidance first.

    Thanks all!
    Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

    The Grove at Five Points

  • #2
    You call the number on the listing - it's usually the trainer or assistant. There may be recommended vets on the CANTER website (typically you don't want the vet recommended by a seller because of conflict of interest...but you also may not have a lot of options). Track vets are experienced knowing track horses and what injuries to look for and what is considered usual wear and tear.

    If you can bring an experienced friend or trainer to help -- its always good to have support and guidance.

    Keep appointments, be prompt and professional. Be respectful of busy trainers so that track trainers will continue to work with CANTER.

    Here are some resources from Canter - including buying an OTTB.

    http://www.canterne.org/vets.htm

    http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?o...d=80&Itemid=94

    Contact your local CANTER - they are super helpful and informative:
    http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?o...d=82&Itemid=95

    Lots of CANTER volunteers post here...so you should be getting more responses.

    Best wishes!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks, appreciate the info!
      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

      The Grove at Five Points

      Comment


      • #4
        The director of CANTER Mid-Atlantic posts on here frequently and I know where she lives if you'd like an intro!
        www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

        www.pegasusridge.com

        Comment


        • #5
          The only thing I'll add is to make sure it's in a location where you can go see the horse yourself. If it's a really nice horse and someone on here offers to go take a look for you (because they're much closer), be prepared to have the horse bought out from under you

          I'm over it now, but it's happened to me twice. Yeah, I'm slow but eventually I catch on. I tried to take it as a compliment. That I have a good eye
          "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Toadie's mom View Post
            The only thing I'll add is to make sure it's in a location where you can go see the horse yourself. If it's a really nice horse and someone on here offers to go take a look for you (because they're much closer), be prepared to have the horse bought out from under you

            I'm over it now, but it's happened to me twice. Yeah, I'm slow but eventually I catch on. I tried to take it as a compliment. That I have a good eye
            Wow, that's really disappointing someone would do that! I live too far away from any CANTER sites so I had always figured that I'd try to beg someone to go check out the horse for me.
            Cascadia- OTTB mare. 04/04-05/10
            If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever

            Comment


            • #7
              Toadies Mom...if you find something in the Mid-Atantic region..except Mountanieer I would be more than Happy to go look,touch, jog, flex, ask questions and get you ASAP photo's of all legs feet etc...and promise NOT to buy your pony!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Welcome to the world of Off Track buying...

                1.) Be prepared for not being able to have your typical time frames. This isn't a show horse, money talks and the sale horse walks. Typically what happens is you or an agent for you (Who agrees not to buy the horse for themself unless you pass on it!! That sucks Toadie!!) goes and sees the horses and maybe takes pics. Watch it move. and thats about it. The rules of a racetrack are very clear, you must be licensed as an ex rider or jockey to ride. Period. Once upon a time I was able to sit on a Canter horse at Charlestown because I held a current lics. But that's very atypical.

                2.) Other people can see that this horse is for sale. So interest, and competition to take it home can come up in the blink of an eye. Thus decisions should be made quickly. If you get a bad/iffy/unsure feeling from a horse when you see it...it's best to walkaway and let someone else in who "knows" that's their horse on first sight.

                3.) Racetrack trainers come in 1 varities...open and closed minded. Some respect the show world, others do not. Your comments should thus be kept to a dull roar since you don't know which type your dream horse resides with. Going on and on and inadvertently saying things that disparage them will not help you or the horse. An implied "dig" spoken when viewing has more than once led to a mystery buyer coming 10 mins after you leave and thus the horse is gone. Praise the horse's condition and his overall health, don't obsess over racetrack normalities such as:

                a.) Poultice on up over the knees
                b.) lack of a pulled mane/ mane on wrong side
                c.) lack of weight
                d.) mis matched items like nylon halters etc
                e.) dirty stalls in late afternoon. (Remember they're mucked before the sun came up)
                f.) horse that doesn't jog in hand well
                g.) anything to do with shoeing

                4.) Bear in mind the horse you see before you will have to go through a variety of transitions if you buy it. Do not forget that it takes a multitude of steps and patience to get to the show/pleasure horse within

                5.) Ask questions to the horse's ex rider if at all possible. They may not tell you everything, but what they will tell you is usually an indication of things to come.

                6.) I don't care if they're gonna give you Animal Kingdom, Secretariat or Smarty Jones for free... pull up his race records. There are indications about his soundness and overall health within those independent records that no owner or trainer can hide. SO CHECK it for free on Equibase.com. If you need help decifering the ancient hyrogliphics that is a horse race record.. ask us. Many here have worked at the track and know how to determine where an abcess, tendon or chips is showing up with a casual absence from works or running.

                That's all I can think of right now.

                Good luck.

                ~Emily
                Last edited by Xctrygirl; Jun. 25, 2011, 03:11 PM. Reason: spelling
                "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP alot of what Emily says is true, but your 1st step is to make the call to the number on the AD.

                  Ask everything you can think of in as short an concise as possible, does it have x-rays, will its wind scope, does it have any joint chips, has it had surgery, do all 4 legs point in the same direction..i.e. is horse close to correct. has horse had any colic since w/ this trainer, Horses JC name and any vices..they only really have to disclose cribbing by the way. Be polite clear and straight forward. I usually ask if they would expect horse to pass a vetting w/ x-rays. Suprisingly most will give an honest answer if they know there is something lurking. ...Also do expect that in some instances you will be lied to by ommission.....
                  I let the seller know I am serious have the cash and would come pre-prepeared to Vet that day pay and go.
                  You can get a list of track available Vets from CANTER or track and ask your choice if they would be on grounds that day. Try to go as close to race track closes from gallops before they poultic legs, feed, rake shed and go.
                  Tell trainer what time you be there and let him know what horses you want to see the legs open on.
                  Some trainers will invite you to come early and see horse gallope.
                  Make sure you take your trailer, cash, have names and numbers of Vets on you and have a vaild photo ID for the gate.

                  If you are having someone else do this for you, be prepared to Western Union the $$ to trainer to pay for horse. Get a signed bill of sale and have your hauling to your state planned and payment cost anticipated and in place.

                  Its not all negotive.......alot of us do this all the time and can help you.

                  Being polite, on time, complimentary to trainer about condition of horse etc is HUGE, and do not show up w/ a huge posse of nosy parkers!!! Lookie lous w/ no money tire kickers.Don't wear shorts tank top and flip flops...or ridng breeches n 1/2 chaps....try Jeans collard shirt n paddock boots.
                  Have the horses name and race record if you have questions on you.

                  Have fun...............
                  Trainers and helps time is valuable start early and they want to get done eat and catch some 'z's" before racing or doing another job.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                    Toadies Mom...if you find something in the Mid-Atantic region..except Mountanieer I would be more than Happy to go look,touch, jog, flex, ask questions and get you ASAP photo's of all legs feet etc...and promise NOT to buy your pony!!!
                    Thanks for the offer! Fortunately I was able to find a wonderful gelding from a race barn I was familiar with here in TX. If I hear of anyone else looking I'll steer them your way.
                    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by pegasusmom View Post
                      The director of CANTER Mid-Atlantic posts on here frequently and I know where she lives if you'd like an intro!
                      ENABLER!!!!

                      XC Girl and JudyBRP - thanks for all the information. It really is a different world, isn't it? It all seems a little overwhelming, but with the right help I'm sure I'd get through it

                      I wouldn't mind letting a nice diamond in the rough have a 6 month sabatical in the field. No hurries and I have lots of good training help.
                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                      The Grove at Five Points

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK let me ask the next logical question.

                        Why aren't you lookinga round you for one that's already been transitioned?

                        So I get that the Canter on the track listings are in expensive, but 6 months of board while you're letting the decompress costs $$$ as well. So why not throw those 6 months of expenses onto your budget and get one that has been transitioned and you can do a proper vetting and test ride on??

                        I mean that seems like the best idea.

                        I know the Canter director too, and her main NC based rider. I can be a horrible enabler.

                        Also side note...

                        Over in N.C., there's an auction out there way east of Pinehurst, and I found my Registered IRISH TB there with papers, for $800. Do some scouring first. Diamonds are all around you.

                        OMG there's a competing 5 yr old TB by Medaglia D'oro near you for $4k. Go buy him!!!!! I know I would if I could.

                        ~Emily

                        http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse...rse_id=1669854
                        "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ACMEeventing View Post
                          ENABLER!!!!
                          Yep! Her main NC based rider also rides for me from time to time. They have nice horses all the time who have already decompressed and been fooled with a bit.

                          You know we picked one up sight unseen (I did watch his last race on HRTV - then shipped him from Washington state four days later) and I'm not sure I would go that route again. We got lucky and got a really nice one, albeit with major gut issues, but I'd give first call to going through Fairweather and company if I had it to do over again.

                          He's up with the big horse and a certain Aussie right now, learning to be an eventer. And I do know you have ALL that pasture that needs to be munched up!
                          www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

                          www.pegasusridge.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pegasusmom View Post
                            The director of CANTER Mid-Atlantic posts on here frequently and I know where she lives if you'd like an intro!
                            Not sure if this is the same person, but check out the blog "Learning How to See What an OTTB Can Be". It appears to the right of the forums page under Most Popular Articles. Very well written, and just some more food for thought.
                            "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              XCgirl you are also a world class enabler! And, yes, Pegasusmom it is a lot of pasture to munch. I promise you will have a neighbor soon

                              Very good point about getting one that is already rested, just didn't want to sound like "oh, I want a perfect world . . . blah, blah, blah" There are so many nice horses that just want a second chance.

                              Keep you posted! Oh, and XCgirl, feel free to PM any more hot leads

                              Jennifer
                              Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                              The Grove at Five Points

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                World Class enabler though I may be I am almost always first and foreost a realist.

                                I want to see horses leaving the track going to homes that include people who know how to teach a track horse during every ride how to become a sound and sane pleasure/show horse. No moments of "Oh god, why's he doing this?" or "WOW... this is a FAST trot! Why is pulling not working?"

                                I watched a special this afternoon with Suze Orman and she made a fantastic point. You have to be honest with your inner truth. She meant that owning up to your actual life circumstances and learning how to accept yourself with these truths as fact allows people to move forward and become healthier in all aspects. Now even though she is referring to financial issues, I believe it applies for horsemanship too.

                                I'll never be an upper-echelon rider. I can gallop about 60% of all Tb's but not the tough ones, and I can feel the fear in me when pushed beyond my limits. And I am ok with that.

                                Not everyone should take a horse off the track. Not everyone should ride without an instructor guiding their skillls. Not everyone can go above BN. And all of this is fine. The horse world is a diverse place and there are plenty of crosses, older horses with a minor issue or upper level horses on the way down that are out there and need to teach people. Don't overlook those worthy partners b/c the ottb is a popular tool for some.

                                Look around and widen the search. You'll likely find someone who just is dying for a shot to let you feed them carrots and mints.

                                ~Emily
                                "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Clearly this has touched a nerve. I hear what you're saying and I respect you for it. But please don't assume that I'm a naive teen looking through rose colored glasses because I want to feed mints to "a rescue".

                                  Sometimes I don't get you OTTB voices. You constantly preach the value of giving these guys (and gals) a shot at a 2nd career, but then come down with the "maybe you should just go find a nice safe fella with an old tendon injury and leave the TBs to the real horseman"

                                  (shrug)
                                  Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                                  The Grove at Five Points

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Forgive me, I wasn't clear.

                                    My message was to all. No one was being specifically addressed. Not you, not anyone you know. (Well that I know of anyway)

                                    I have just seen a lot of OTTB's going to the wrong homes. And on a thread that addresses a good topic (1st time Canter shopper) I want out it out there that not everyone is meant for an ottb.

                                    My apologies. I hope my clarification is easier to understand.

                                    ~Emily
                                    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Amen sister!

                                      I truly respect your honesty. I believe it should extend to all purchase situations. I hate seeing an owner not "own up" to their responsibilities. We have all these expectations of our horses, the least we can do is make their job easier by tending to all of their physical and mental needs. I recently attended a dressage clinic by an amazing world class rider and he said "your first job is to never make your horse's job harder"( I wish I could type with an accent to make it more entertaining!)

                                      Sometimes that means enlisting the help of a knowledgeable trainer, sometimes it means spending money on joint injections, sometimes it means money in supplements, sometimes it just means . . . time.
                                      Last edited by ACMEeventing; Jun. 25, 2011, 09:28 PM.
                                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                                      The Grove at Five Points

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        MidAtlantic Canter

                                        ACME, you are lucky to have them so close to you. I was in your situation not too long ago and wasn't sure I wanted to go the route of buying through the trainer or right off the track.

                                        Then I discovered MidAtlantic Canter and MidAtlantic Horse Rescue. Both are fantastic and when you try the horses they have already had some downtime and are ready to go to work. They have also had some rides on them, often off the farm. They want the horses placed in the right homes and can give you a good idea of personalities or what they think the horse might excel at doing.

                                        The horses aren't finished by any means, but it takes away a lot of the worry.

                                        Comment

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