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One Fall Rule Coming up for Discussion!

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  • One Fall Rule Coming up for Discussion!

    The one-fall rule is going to be coming up for discussion at the Board of Governors Meeting in August - for those of you new to eventing, it used to be that if you fell off on XC at a fence you were penalized 65 points and whatever time you used up getting back on and away you went. Now you are eliminated.

    If you want to weigh in on this subject (pro or con) with the powers that be NOW IS THE TIME!

    Please conact Jo Whitehouse or Brian Sabo at USEA.


    Hilary

  • #2
    Thanks for sharing - I know it is not an uncomplicated issue, but I don't think I am the only one who feels passionately about it!
    Talk to the Hoof

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh sweet baby Jesus!!! Maybe we can reverse that crazy, knee jerk reaction!!!
      Amanda

      Comment


      • #4
        Is there a correct channel to go thru to voice our opinions?

        Comment


        • #5
          All USEA Governors and Officers are listed by Area at this link: http://useventing.com/aboutus.php?section=areas Click on your area, and you will see contact information for your Governors: phone, email, etc. Reach out to them with your thoughts. Your USEA officers and governors are all active in the sport, and you will often run across them at events and schooling days and workshops. Button-hole them at an event and tell them why you care about this issue (or any other issue concerning this sport - that's what we're here for). Talk with your Area Chair, members of your Area Council, or Adult Rider or Young Rider Coordinators (also helpfully listed at the same area contacts link). Send Jo or Brian an email. Call the USEA office. Talk with professional riders that you know who are active in groups like PRO or PHC.

          Moreover, some of your USEA Officers/Governors read this board pretty regularly so even commenting here will work, though probably less credible than a personal contact.

          Comment


          • #6
            Air vests complicate things a bit

            If you consider allowing a fallen rider to continue, it gets more complicated with inflatable airvests...do you also wait for them to reload their vest? Should they be allowed the option to continue without? Presumably USEA will want to have some means of checking the rider before allowing them to continue, so this becomes more and more of a major hold on course while the rider is waiting for the EMT's to be checked medically, airvest reloaded, rider remounted, etc... Or we put the continuing to ride decision on the jump judge, a position that historically has been an entry level position for the eventing uninitiated at lower level events?

            Comment


            • #7
              Ok so need to look up who to email!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                What YB said! Finally!

                This is a stupid rule, period done. We've had mechanisms in place for years for checking out riders who might need an EMT consult before continuing, for the very few falls that pose some question.

                With all due respect to Rabtfarm, I don't see air vests complicating the question in the least. If the status of your equipment means you can't continue, that's a different question. The rider can make that decision. Same as if you can't get on your horse again after you get dumped. Not a rules problem - a rider problem.

                Thanks for posting this, Hilary!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks!
                  I think now, with the education in place for the jj's, that it can be determined to call the EMT or if someone landed on their feet and needs to continue on.
                  And now that the scores are more utilized with RF's and such, events can determine if you keep falling or not and if you need that time out.
                  It was a good knee jerk reaction at the time until we got things sorted out but now, I think it needs to be reversed with all the other rules in place.
                  Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rabtfarm View Post
                    If you consider allowing a fallen rider to continue, it gets more complicated with inflatable airvests...do you also wait for them to reload their vest? Should they be allowed the option to continue without? Presumably USEA will want to have some means of checking the rider before allowing them to continue, so this becomes more and more of a major hold on course while the rider is waiting for the EMT's to be checked medically, airvest reloaded, rider remounted, etc... Or we put the continuing to ride decision on the jump judge, a position that historically has been an entry level position for the eventing uninitiated at lower level events?
                    Rabtfarm - inflatable vests are not required to ride XC. You could either choose to ride with the vest still inflated and without another cartridge, or remove your air vest. Riders who ride XC with air vests and have fallen on XC (not associated with a fence) and have gotten back on have made this decision.
                    www.MurphyEventing.com

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                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Jo Whitehouse Jo@useventing.com

                      Brian Sabo brian@sabogroup.com


                      And your area rep - from the link GotSpots has

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        British Eventing has data that led them to repeal the one-fall rule. A while back, Malcolm Hook posted on here that USEF/USEF also had that data. I hope that data is consulted in this process.

                        Also, BE has stats from the past couple of seasons of eventing without the one-fall rule. That evidence should be given thorough consideration as well -- is eventing really any more dangerous when you can get back on your horse?

                        As an EMT, I have explained ad nauseum on this BB why the 'EMT clearance' rule is absolute nonsense, utterly unenforceable, and, in many ways, an invitation to lawsuits and disciplinary action.

                        The one-fall rule as it exists now makes no sense as a safety rule. You can fall off one of your horses and then hop on another. You can fall in warm-up or in the stabling area or after the finish flags and continue without issue.

                        For the one-fall rule to be a safety rule, a fall = a fall = a fall: if you fall, you're off your mounts for the day. But no one's about to implement that rule, and there's really no reason why they should.

                        I'll be glad to see this bit of Safety Theatre gone from the sport.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Does this 'one fall rule' discussion include the rule for stadium as well as cross country?

                          Am I the only one that thinks it is silly to be eliminated for falling in stadium but not cross country, the more dangerous phase?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ajierene View Post
                            Am I the only one that thinks it is silly to be eliminated for falling in stadium but not cross country, the more dangerous phase?
                            Or that you can fall off in a way not related to an obstacle and not get eliminated. I know that is because of JJ constraints (can't put people at every visible spot on the course), but it still bugs me!

                            Question: if the one-fall rule does get repealed, could a competitor still be eliminated under the umbrella of "dangerous riding" if they had a really horrifying fall?
                            "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              mg, that's a really interesting question, especially since we have seen the dangerous riding rule applied much more than we ever did pre-fall rule.

                              As for xc vs. sj, as someone whose worst fall was in SJ, and after our last horse trial, where our "falls requiring medical attention" over 2 days equaled 1 on xc and 1 on SJ...I think it is nonsense to make any kind of distinction in the rules. Whatever the rule is should apply to both jumping phases.
                              The big man -- my lost prince

                              The little brother, now my main man

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by mg View Post
                                Question: if the one-fall rule does get repealed, could a competitor still be eliminated under the umbrella of "dangerous riding" if they had a really horrifying fall?

                                What's your definition of 'really horrifying' -


                                My husband thinks any time I come off the horse, even when I land on my feet, is "really horrifying". To me, really horrifying involves the horse falling (which is already MR) or rider injury. If you are too injured to get back on, you don't need a rule to eliminate you.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  From a scoring perspective, I do not think that a fall (65 penalty points) should give you a better score than 2 stops at one fence and one stop at another fence (80 penalty points). If they are going to get rid of Fall=E, I think they should increase the penalty for a fall to at least 100 penalty points.

                                  From a riding and schooling perspective, especially in areas where people drive many hours to a competition, and have few other opportunities to school, I would not be opposed to giving the organizers and officials the discretion to allow a competitor to continue on course. But I would want this to be on an individual basis, with consideration both to whether the rider is uninjured, and whether the rider is riding in a safe manner.
                                  Janet

                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by mg View Post
                                    Question: if the one-fall rule does get repealed, could a competitor still be eliminated under the umbrella of "dangerous riding" if they had a really horrifying fall?
                                    Yes, but it has to do with whether the offiicals think it constituted "dangerous riding". Not on whetehr the fall itself was "horrifying".
                                    Janet

                                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Just a little side note....if you just email Jo Whitehouse, sometimes (as happened with me) your email may end up in her junk mail and never seen.

                                      I would first of all go to the USEA site, check up on your Area BofG rep, speak to them in person or try a phone call, then perhaps email, to allow your feelings to be known.

                                      If you, and your friends feel the same in your barn, I would say a signature page with as many USEA members as you can find ***might possibly*** be of some importance. Your rep standing up at a meeting with 100 signatures might carry some weight.


                                      I don't know, just suggesting... that is how I have actually had some sway on legislative matters when I was a lobbyist in my state house....the USEA may not work that way politically. Don't know.
                                      Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                      Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        IMHO, the one fall rule, for both stadium and XC, hits the one-horse amateur competitor hardest. We train year-round, travel (in some places) for many hours to compete. One stupid pop-off, and you go home. Hundreds of hours of practice, and hundreds of dollars down the tubes. Professionals, meanwhile, have a string. They fall off one horse, and then hop on another.

                                        The rule either needs to have teeth, such that any fall from any horse, anywhere on the property sends you home for the day, or (since the fall has shown no association with higher levels of safety per the BE experience) ditch it!

                                        Comment

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