• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Spinoff--Chamberlin (US Cavalry) on gaits Walk, trot, gallop w/pics

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spinoff--Chamberlin (US Cavalry) on gaits Walk, trot, gallop w/pics

    This is from Training Hunter, Jumpers and Hacks by General Harry D. Chamberlin, 2nd Ed., Arco Printing, 1976, a reprint of the 1937 work--from the section on what to look for in a horse that one is considering buying--Pages 19-26, with some ellisions from me.

    Chamberlin was the officer who introduced the forward seat to our cavalry as best for XC. He was also the officer in charge of the Military International Competition squads (Olympics, etc.) from the mid 1920's to WWII. He was killed in the South Pacific in 1944. He also wrote much of the riding and training part of the 1935 Cavalry Manual--Horsemanship and Horsemastership, which Gordon Wright rewrote for civilians after WWII.

    Study of the Gaits

    To see the horse move on a halter, longe or at liberty is absolutely essential, for no matter how handsome he may be, without low, true, elastic and free gaits, he will be of little value.

    To have him led on a halter is perhaps the most satisfactory way of studying the walk and trot. The halter shank should be allowed to hand loosely so that it may in no way interfere with the natural gestures made by the head and neck. . . . All three gaits should be studied from the side while the horse is moving past; from the front when the horse is moving forward; and from the rear when the horse is moving away from the observer.

    The Walk

    At the walk--called "the mother of the gaits"--the strides, when studied from the side, should be long, free, and close to the ground. In a good walk, each hind foot strikes the ground from four to ten inches or more in advance of the print made by the fore foot on the corresponding side. As the fore is carried to the front the should moves easily and freely, the point appearing to slip forward smoothly and elastically, while the upper end of the blade moves similarly to the rear. The angle between the shoulder blade and the arm displays great amplitude in opening and closing, the arm reaching well out to the front as the foot is grounded. No cramped or tight appearance is apparent if the horse is well conformed, sound, and walks well. Each fore leg snaps unhesitatingly to its full extension and the heel appears to strike the ground first. As western horsemen say, "He picks 'em up and lays 'em down." The knees are not raised high with good cannons which are short relative to the forearms. The fetlock joints are supple and softly springy. No stiffness is present in any part of the stride.

    The hind leg moves freely with little perceptible flexion at the hock because the motion appears to be caused by the free, long gesture of the thigh (from the hip joint to the stifle) which swings the leg and cannon almost as one piece and engages the foot far forward under the horse's body. The fetlocks should also be very flexible and springy without, as a result of excessively long pasterns, breaking back too far when the feet are planted.

    Viewed from the front, the forelegs should move in vertical planes with no throwing of the feet outward (paddling) or inward. Ample, but not excessive, room between the fore feet as they pass should exist. If too close together there will be interference and unstableness, especially when the horse is fatigued; if too far apart, he will be stable but will lack agility, speed and suppleness at faster gaits. The front feet, when moving properly, remain square and true during the whole stride.

    In watching the horse from directly in rear, his hind legs should exhibit no rotation of the foot or hock as the foot strikes the ground; the feet should travel squarely to the front without swinging outward or inward. Faulty twisting, grinding or swinging action means loss of efficiency and additional strain on articulations and tendons, with consequent likelihood of injuries.

    The hind feet should follow accurately the same lines made by the fore; however, the hind leg does not always move in a vertical plante since, from the stifle down, it often slopes inward slightly toward the foot, particularly on broad-hipped horses.

    With a good walk, the horse appears to glide along in a snakelike manner
    Emphasis supplied

    The bolded image certainly says a lot, doesn't it?
    Last edited by vineyridge; Jun. 10, 2011, 03:57 PM.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire

  • #2
    Thank you! Looking forward to the other two gaits!
    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

    So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      What to look for at the trot.
      The Trot

      At the trot, when observing the horse from the front and rear, similar conditions to those desired at the walk should exist relative to true, low action and the cracking of the feet, Contrary to what is often heard about a thoroughbred's not being able to trot well, since he is bred to gallop, it is noteworthy that a long-striding springy trot is a reliable indicator of an excellent galloper. The trot, though springy, should be low, with feet moving close to the ground as the result of a minimum flexion of knees and hocks. This gait quickly reveals the presence of natural "impulsion" where, although little effort is evident, great driving power is displayed by the hind legs and the strides are long. The horse with such a trot appears to glide along with little up and motion apparent in any part of his body. A generally well made horse with a trot as described, if also graced by high withers, a somewhat sloping but long and well made croup and good hocks, usually will prove to be a long-striding galloper and good jumper.

      At the trot, there should be no sidewise rocking of the hindquarters, which comes from legs set too far apart, or hips too broad, faults found where a strong cross of draft horse blood exists.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by vineyridge; Jun. 10, 2011, 03:46 PM.
      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
      Thread killer Extraordinaire

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Chamberlin says that the canter is nothing more than a slow gallop, so this section covers both. The photo comes from the book, and so does the diagram of the horse's movements at the gallop.

        The Gallop

        The gallop is the natural gait of the thoroughbred type when moving at speed. It is far less fatiguing to such horses than is a very fast trot. Incidentally a slow trot is less fatiguing than the walk when the latter gait is pushed to extreme speed for long periods of time. However, brief periods of the extended and trot are excellent gymnastics for training purposes.

        The horse, when "galloping with the right lead" places the right lateral biped (the right fore and right hind) at each stride on the ground in advance of the left lateral biped (left fore and left hind). If galloping slowly (cantering) with the right lead, the gait has three beats; 1st--left hind; 2d--right hind and left fore; there is now an instant when three feet are in support, until the left hind is lifted leaving the right hind and left fore only in support; 3rd--right fore. As the right fore grounds, the right hind and both front feet give again a tripedal support until the right hind lifts. This is followed by the lifting of the left fore, leaving only the right fore in support. The right fore leg, now used as a pole vaulter uses his pole, receives the impulsion from the hind legs which projects the whole mass of the horse into the air over the right fore into the period of suspension which occurs in each galloping stride.

        As the gallop becomes fast, a four-beat gait results because the right hind comes to ground an instant ahead of the left fore. At a racing gallop, the tripedal phases of support disappear, and all four feet are planted on approximately a single straight line.

        The horse carries his croup slightly to right, if leading right, which favorably disposes his two right legs to come to ground in advance of the left ones. It also places the bipedal supporting diagonal (left fore and right hind when leading right) on a broadened base which steadies the equilibrium laterally as the hind legs propel the horse forward.

        A good galloper's feet travel close to the groung ("daisy cutter") with little knee and hock action. The hind feet come well under the belly with an easy, free swinging of the hind legs and the hock apparently flexes very little. The forehand appears well balanced and light, flowing smoothly along without jerkiness. The shoulder blades and arms appear free and relaxed in their action, while the fore feet reach far out to the front, with fetlock joints supple and springy, as the feet strike earth. There should be no flinging of the fore or hind feet outward or inward when the gallop is viewed from directly in front or behind the horse. A single stride at a gallop varies from about twelve feet at slow speed to twenty-seven feet at top racing speed.

        In the case of an unbroken colt that has never been ridden or worked on a longe, he may be observed while at the gallop in a corral or pasture. If he possesses good shoulders and displayed an excellent walk and trot, his gallop almost invariably will be good.
        Couple of pictures to be attached after reducing their size--then the last bit of general stuff on gaits and the front.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by vineyridge; Jun. 10, 2011, 03:27 PM.
        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
        Thread killer Extraordinaire

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          General discussion after The Gallop. I should mention that Chamberlin is very much in favor of tall withers on XC horses because of the length and attachment of muscles that propel the front legs. He talks about the legs as broken pendulums in action. From the photos that illustrate the book, I'd say he actually preferred what we would call "shark finned" withers for horses who will work at the gallop.

          After studying his gaits dismounted, if the colt is broken to the saddle, the final and most satisfactory test is to ride him. This will tell teh tale. Has he a "good front" when mounted? In other words is there "a lot of horse" out in front of the rider? The front should come from long, sloping shoulders and long, high withers which run far into the back. The neck should be moderate in length, for a straight shoulder and a willowy neck, while giving a lot of front, also place the rider in a most insecure and uncomfortable position.

          All gaits should feel free, long and elastic when the horse is ridden, particularly when going down slopes. Galloping down a hill determines whether the shoulders, arms, and hindquarters are so conformed as to give natural balance. If they are, the rider will have no apprehension about the horse's falling, for he will gallop almost as easily and smoothly as when on level footing.

          If the prospective buyer, after this general examination of the horse and his gaits, is satisfied, a painstaking study of his conformation should be made. The details to be observed will be analyzed in Chapter II.
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire

          Comment


          • #6
            I love this book. Thank you for posting excerpts ...

            Comment


            • #7
              thanks

              thanks for posting this- so interesting! i will be looking for a copy of this book!

              and now i don't feel like my obsession with looking at a prospect out of tack and really dissecting the trot is less important than the original quality of the canter.
              Jazz- 4.9.01 OTTB, loved since 12.6.09
              Skip- 3.3.91 APHA, i miss you buddy

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                More photos. It'll take two posts to get them all in.
                The first is General Chamberlin on High Hat, one of their jumpers.
                Next is a conformation photo of the TB stallion High Line.
                Then a photo of one of their jumpers, Joe Aleshire in action and in conformation.

                Then a drawing, showing the difference in angles between the "galloping type" and the "trotting type."
                Attached Files
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I am amazed at the total difference in head set between now and the cavalry way. There is a whole chapter in the book on that topic alone.
                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                    I am amazed at the total difference in head set between now and the cavalry way. There is a whole chapter in the book on that topic alone.
                    What specifically do you mean by "head set?"
                    Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                    Alfred A. Montapert

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Chamberlin calls it "head carriage" not head set. And he does devote a whole chapter to it.

                      take a look at the photo of the "trained horse" at the extended trot. These days the horse would be in a dressage frame with a neck that bows somewhere in the middle. The photos look to me as though they wanted the head carried much higher than we do these days.

                      I'll see if I can find some of his "dressage" move photos to scan and post. I'll also post some of his jumping pictures.
                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                        ...
                        take a look at the photo of the "trained horse" at the extended trot. These days the horse would be in a dressage frame with a neck that bows somewhere in the middle. The photos look to me as though they wanted the head carried much higher than we do these days.
                        ...
                        Ok....I have the 1947 edition....found the pix. My opinions:

                        (1) - Note the rider is posting at the extended trot. For the life of me, I don't understand why dressage tests require extended trot to be done sitting. The postillions invented posting for a reason....to get off the horse's back (and to alleviate the pounding on theirs).

                        (2) - Note the reins....very light contact. Also note that in a lot of the pictures the horses wear no cavesson.

                        (3) - As far as the head carriage, he is looking for "calmness, boldness and relaxation" and feels that the how a horse is taught head carriage can influence calmness as the horse frets. He wants a "stiff neck" and wants no yielding of the jaw or poll. He goes on to state that a "soft, overflexed, 'rubber neck,' spells ruination."

                        Chamberlain wants the horse to develop equilibrium under the rider of "his own volition." This is in contrast to the dressage trainers that say "ride every step."

                        Yes, I am a fan of Chamberlain......and thanks for reminding me I had this book hiding in my bookshelves as I now break my new horse. Bought out of the field as a long yearling, he just turned 3. Very timely as we are starting to sit on him.
                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                        Alfred A. Montapert

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Oh, I completely agree. The dressage frame goes a long way in depriving a horse of vision and is an indicator of a master/slave relationship.
                          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                          Thread killer Extraordinaire

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X