• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Start a young horse with a Dressage or Jumper trainer?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Originally posted by Meshach View Post
    yes, I like that the bar is set so very low -- if you can get them to walk in a straight line it's a successful day. if you are still saying that when they're 10, then you have a problem.

    I agree. Although my last one would walk straight....just didn't turn left.....kinda of still has trouble with that sometimes
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

    Comment


    • #22
      ha! And I was just thinking -- hmm, who has trouble going straight down centerline during a test? me! so maybe I should rethink my statement ...

      Comment


      • #23
        ^^LOL! So true.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by jenm View Post
          Yes, he specializes in mules and problem horses.
          Mules and problem horses... as if those two categories had anything in common!

          Casper would be so offended.

          Please post pics of his progress. I love mules.

          Comment


          • #25
            Just had my young horse started by an event rider.
            I loved her attitude with him and after 4 months all the basics are so there - walk, trot, canter, balanced turns, rides out alone in the big grass field, goes on trails and likes to lead, cantering over poles and going thru water (he did that before any training!)

            Granted this guy was easy as pie and quiet, quiet, quiet. She left his face alone, let him figure out how to balance himself and now he's light as air in your hand.
            He still pokes his nose out a bit but he has the biggest, swinging walk and stands like a rock to mount and fiddle with stirrups.

            I couldn't be more pleased, his mind is so open and eager and he's curious about everything, even something spooky. He'll look at me like "Mom, did you see THAT? Let's go over and sniff it!"

            He's home for the summer to think about everything, grow some more and go on the occassional trail ride.
            You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts!

            Comment


            • #26
              The facility more than the discipline

              The best start was an event trainer as she had the best facility to get a horse going forward and outside. Most dressage trainers don't go out side enough, both jumper and dressage live and die inside a ring, I want forward and free not forward and pushed at first and riding out is the best for green horses. My perfect start is the one where they get out of the ring as soon as is reasonably possible. OUT OUT OUT! PatO

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by stoicfish View Post
                I do not think of dressage as advanced movements but in the strict sense it is a training method, or as Michel Shaffer says- a method of teaching horses the most efficient way to carry a rider. Klimke’s stages of training start as soon as you back them. That is why I would consider a good dressage trainer to be a benefit. Not so much that the training has to be different but that the trainer, herself, may have a better understanding of how to help the horse to learn balance and to move relaxed, all other things equal. The question is more about the understanding the disciplines bring to the equation.
                THIS ^^^

                And to whomever said "Young horses don't 'do' dressage"...I think you've missed the whole point of Dressage or are looking at it only in a competitive sense, and not what it is Intended to be....which is a progressive and systematic approach to training... a system that most definitnely has a very basic beginning structure.

                After spending 3 years as the assistant trainer to a 3*** Eventer/2012 Developing Rider I can say that I fully see the value of giving horses a very strong Dressage base before introducing any jumping. In my expereince (and my back ground was about 15 years in H/J before coming over to Dressage) horses are FAR easier to train O/F when they have a solid foundation of Flatwork/Dressage (whatever you want to call it in this context) and most horses started over fences without regard to strong flatwork training first are usually the ones we have to "fix".

                Horses can jump. If you can ride between the fences, the rest comes easy. It drives me nuts how many people are in such a rush to have them jumping as fast and as high as they can in as little time as possible.

                And, as mentioned above, Dressage is becoming more and more important and many events are won in the Dressage ring...
                Concordia means "Harmony" in Latin.
                Full Time Dressage Addict

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by Concordia View Post

                  In my expereince (and my back ground was about 15 years in H/J before coming over to Dressage) horses are FAR easier to train O/F when they have a solid foundation of Flatwork/Dressage (whatever you want to call it in this context) and most horses started over fences without regard to strong flatwork training first are usually the ones we have to "fix".
                  So really, it is not the jumping you have a problem with, it is bad flatwork.

                  Originally posted by Concordia View Post
                  Horses can jump. If you can ride between the fences, the rest comes easy. It drives me nuts how many people are in such a rush to have them jumping as fast and as high as they can in as little time as possible.
                  And it drives me nuts how many people think that a horse has to be performing at first level before it can canter a 2'6" course. Of course horses can jump, and they can be easily ruined.

                  Originally posted by Concordia View Post
                  And, as mentioned above, Dressage is becoming more and more important and many events are won in the Dressage ring...
                  And they are lost in the jumping phase. Please view 2011 Rolex results if you have any doubt about that.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Want some more formal advice?

                    Pippa Funnell and Sally O'Connor each have books in print on starting young event horses that contain some of the advice given here as well as specific training for different developmental aspects.


                    Training the Young Horse by Pippa Funnell


                    Practical Eventing by Sally O'Connor

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Concordia View Post
                      And to whomever said "Young horses don't 'do' dressage"...I think you've missed the whole point of Dressage or are looking at it only in a competitive sense, and not what it is Intended to be....which is a progressive and systematic approach to training... a system that most definitnely has a very basic beginning structure.
                      That was me who said that, and I explained how I meant it. I don't think the repetition and stresses of dressage are the most effective or appropriate form of training for a 3 or 4 year-old.

                      Event horses need to be able to think for themselves and look after themselves and their riders. This is what I want to encourage from Day 1. Certain things are of paramount importance -- forward, straightness -- but the 'on the bit' business can wait. And I'll always, always take an independent thinker over a submissive type. Like Gry said, the horse has its whole life to learn dressage.

                      As for between fences, young/green horses can take a long time to have the adjustability in the canter to jump a technical course, even one of low height. But you don't have to wait for that to start them on jumping exercises or doing easy courses in a mix of trot and canter.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        If I had a choice, I'd probably send one to an event rider who would give them the proper basics and hack them out a bit, introduce tiny jumps, etc. However, I bought my youngster as a coming 4 year old from a H/J trainer (who started her). She is now 5, and I must admit--I am loving how easy she has been for me to jump. As Gry2Yng said:
                        Send them to a good hunter/jumper program. A young event horse needs learn to be confident over fences and develop the best form it possibly can before they good out into the world of "just get it done".
                        I have had to work on bending, suppleness, and throughness with this horse in our dressage work. But, she is SO honest about her jumping. We have moved right along because the jumping (x-c and stadium) has really been no big deal. Luckily, I am a stronger dressage rider, so for ME--this is ideal. I can work on the dressage, and she can cart my arse over fences. I DID have to introduce her to x-c jumps, and hacking out (the H/J trainer never took her out) but it was easy, and she was super brave and sensible.

                        So, like others said--choose someone who is good at starting youngsters. Also someone who gives them confidence but also doesn't let them learn how to say "no".

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by dustbowl View Post
                          Pippa Funnell and Sally O'Connor each have books in print on starting young event horses that contain some of the advice given here as well as specific training for different developmental aspects.


                          Training the Young Horse by Pippa Funnell


                          Practical Eventing by Sally O'Connor
                          William Fox-Pitt also has a nice book on young horses.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            The flip side is the premise that an Eventing horse has to be brave and a bit of a rogue at heart. In some ways (becoming more so) Eventing has contradictory demands, which makes it really interesting. I guess it is like asking if a zebra is white with black stripes or black with white stripes, - do you want a dressage type horse that can jump or a brave jumper that will put up with dressage, at the end it is still an eventer.
                            This has been a helpful discussion.
                            Most of it is academic as finding the good trainer is the hardest part anyway. BTW if any of you know of an exceptional trainer that starts young horses in Alberta, please let me know.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It's kind of like looking for a Kindergarten teacher who is better in Philosophy or Physics.

                              You want one that is really, really great with kids and understands how they learn and develop and who LIKES that part of the job. Of course with kids you probably won't find Kindergarten teachers who can't stand young children and would rather be teaching Physics, but you get the idea. Trainers specialize, and I'd consider "bring up baby" an area of specialization.

                              That said, if I wanted an eventer, I would look for an eventer to do the training, all things considered. Someone who "gets it" that a horse has to be well-rounded, confident out of the ring, and capable of switching gears mentally and physically.
                              Click here before you buy.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                "do you want a dressage type horse that can jump or a brave jumper that will put up with dressage, at the end it is still an eventer."

                                You can find one that enjoys both aspects. I have found that the ones that enjoy their own athleticism and have a great work ethic, move easily back and forth, provided they are well started. Best of luck to you!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X