• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

FEI substances

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • FEI substances

    Okay, so we all know the FEI list is clear as mud....and I suppose if you have a degree in chemistry, you might actually know what all those substances are...

    But for the rest of us....

    I was thinking, rarely, but thinking, maybe it would be nice to compile a "FEI approved substances for dummies" handout. Today, our horse, who is waiting on his FEI passport back from USEA had a minor scratch, and my daughter and I wanted to put something on it. WELLLLLL....shoot, now what. Don't want to use anything we know we can't...which we don't know much yet.

    So idea, if all of you wonderful FEI competitors would name WHAT IS allowed, that you know for a FACT, it would be SOOO beneficial to us. I was talking to someone who is a regular that comes to the events here to sell tack and stuff what was legal, even she was...heck if I know...it doesn't make sense.

    So her and I talked, and we decided to try and come up with a list of what we can use, what drugs and what time frame, etc...for the lay person who doesn't want to text poor Jenn 50 times a day.

    Thanks.
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com

  • #2
    Don't know if you're a techie but the FEI has a "Cleansport" app for prohibited substances (the app is for iPhone, don't know about the other smartphones). It has a search function so if you have something you want to give, you can type it in to see if it's legal.
    Balanced Care Equine

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Yeah, but it's not, that I can tell, name brands, but rather, for the most part, (hmmm that was clear and decisive) really name brand, but rather lists things like.....Hydrogen Oxide...I used that one cause I know what it actually is...grin...

      Hence why I want to compile a list of things that actually name products...

      For instance, the way I understand it, you can use Sore No More gel, but not liquid...Why? they both have exactly the same stuff in them..the gel actually has one more ingredient...

      So you get the idea.
      May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
      www.mmceventing.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
        Yeah, but it's not, that I can tell, name brands, but rather, for the most part, (hmmm that was clear and decisive) really name brand, but rather lists things like.....Hydrogen Oxide...I used that one cause I know what it actually is...grin...

        Hence why I want to compile a list of things that actually name products...

        For instance, the way I understand it, you can use Sore No More gel, but not liquid...Why? they both have exactly the same stuff in them..the gel actually has one more ingredient...

        So you get the idea.
        As far as I know all Sore No More products are out as they contain Arnica. Has that changed?

        Comment


        • #5
          No need to reinvent the wheel.

          http://prohibitedsubstancesdatabase.feicleansport.org/

          Could not be simpler. Works for brand names as well as generics.

          "Arnica" did not yield any results--might not function for herbals.

          Nope, I take it back--"Valerian" is banned and that's an herbal. Maybe arnica is OK after all. Or there are some holes in the database. Still, it ought to cover most of the stuff that's in an ointment or something you'd put on a minor scratch.

          There are plenty of "legal" medications that fall under FEI rules. They just need to be declared and documented.
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd really love to see a database where I can search for the brand name....like "Sore No More Liniment" or "Cowboy Magic Shampoo" and be able to tell what is legal and what isn't. It's a pretty huge pain to have to search for all the ingredients, especially if I'm in a store looking to buy something.
            Comedic Eventing on Facebook

            Comment


            • #7
              That's where the smart phone app might come in handy, so you can check the ingredients before you buy, with the bottle in your hand. Since most products have multiple formulations, it would be a gigantic and unending task for one governing body to keep up with every potential product in a database.
              Click here before you buy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by joiedevie99 View Post
                As far as I know all Sore No More products are out as they contain Arnica. Has that changed?

                only if you make them drink it....some are ok used as directed (on the skin). At least that was what I was told.


                I thought both the liquid and gel are fine...as braces on the skin. But a couple weeks out...we typically just used plain alcohol to be safe.


                ETA: OP for a little cut--I would check but I think you are safe to put your basic triple antibiotic ointment. But once you are at an FEI event...I think you need to run most things by the attending vet.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you look here at the product description, it specifically says it has arnica and meets FEI zero tolerance rules. http://www.bigdweb.com/prodinfo.asp?number=20SNMTG
                  Not that I believe everything manufacturers say about their products....
                  OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    So, first, brand names are NOT included on the FEI website. Second, have any of you actually LOOKED at what is included in a list of what is in something? Also, did you know Yucca can't be given, because it has analgesic properties...so it's banned, even though, it can't be found on the list. How many other things aren't found on that list? A LOT. Because it will test positive for something else. Hence asking ESTABLISHED, been there DONE THAT FEI competitors to help clear it up.

                    As for checking on a smart phone app...you know, not ALL of us have one of those. My simple little, cheap plan, doesn't do that. As well, I dunno about anyone else, but I simply haven't hours to go through a list looking at ingredients for multiple purchases.

                    I REALLY would appreciate ANY help.

                    Thanks.
                    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                    www.mmceventing.com

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      alchol

                      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                      only if you make them drink it....some are ok used as directed (on the skin). At least that was what I was told.


                      I thought both the liquid and gel are fine...as braces on the skin. But a couple weeks out...we typically just used plain alcohol to be safe.


                      ETA: OP for a little cut--I would check but I think you are safe to put your basic triple antibiotic ointment. But once you are at an FEI event...I think you need to run most things by the attending vet.
                      See, here is a good example...I was told to NOT use alchol at a TR3D cause it too would test positive for a prohibitive substance.

                      And here is the quandry....horses need help. I dunno any athlete who doesn't take an aspirin ocasionally, or rub liniment on themselves after a workout....

                      I absolutely believe in the zero tolerance thing....but if we are going to have that, we need to know what we CAN USE.
                      May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                      www.mmceventing.com

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                        No need to reinvent the wheel.

                        http://prohibitedsubstancesdatabase.feicleansport.org/

                        Could not be simpler. Works for brand names as well as generics.

                        "Arnica" did not yield any results--might not function for herbals.

                        Nope, I take it back--"Valerian" is banned and that's an herbal. Maybe arnica is OK after all. Or there are some holes in the database. Still, it ought to cover most of the stuff that's in an ointment or something you'd put on a minor scratch.

                        There are plenty of "legal" medications that fall under FEI rules. They just need to be declared and documented.
                        How is the average person suppose to know "Valerian" is a herbal? This is where it gets so muddy.
                        May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                        www.mmceventing.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
                          See, here is a good example...I was told to NOT use alchol at a TR3D cause it too would test positive for a prohibitive substance.

                          And here is the quandry....horses need help. I dunno any athlete who doesn't take an aspirin ocasionally, or rub liniment on themselves after a workout....

                          I absolutely believe in the zero tolerance thing....but if we are going to have that, we need to know what we CAN USE.

                          Rubbing alcohol used when bandaging a leg doesn't test and is perfectly fine at FEI events. I'm not sure who told you that at the T3D but that is not correct.


                          ETA: A list for dummies may be a nice thought but it isn't all crystal clear for a reason. Horses metabolize things differently...so what is a safe witholding period for one horse will not be for another.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Gold2012, generally I don't use anything at an FEI event to 'help' the horse recover. I'm with you though, it would be nice to give them a liniment bath, etc. But I stick with icing, hand walking, and maybe seeing if there is an equine masseuse on grounds if my horse is especially stiff. Back on track blankets, magnetic therapies, infrared. But mostly icing and handwalking.

                            At home, before the event, I try to make sure all the products I own and use (shampoo, ointments, etc) on a regular basis are FEI safe especially if I'm less than a month out for an FEI show. I don't worry too much about small cuts as long as they look okay, I just make sure they're clean and I put vaseline on them to soften and help them heal faster. After galloping, I ice and wrap, no liniment. Etc, etc.

                            In other words, the easiest thing to do for FEI is to only use ice and water on the horse.
                            Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              I am finding it terribly frustrating that there seems to be no "guidelines" for wrapping legs, what can/can't be put on a cut.

                              I also find it frustrating that the educational opportunity that exist here seems to be being passed up on.

                              We had a thread recently about the lack of horsemanship in our youth, and how we need to educate....here would be a great example.

                              As to the alcohol....it was an FEI vet. Who said, and I quote: "Alcohol will test as a stimulant, and you would be wise to NOT use it for any purpose other than in extreme cases."

                              Also, as a side note, recently we bought a joint supplement for our intermediate horse, only to find on the list Yucca. JH told me that Yucca will test positive as an Anathegesic....hope spelled that correctly. I looked to see if it was on the Prohibited list...to find it is not. I then proceeded to contact FEI at the number they suggested, after several attempts to actually reach someone who had the scoop, I gave up and we went to injections instead. I never rec'd an answer from FEI. Either way.

                              Anyway, still looking for some help, if anyone is so inclined. thanx.
                              May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                              www.mmceventing.com

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                thanks

                                Originally posted by Divine Comedy View Post
                                Gold2012, generally I don't use anything at an FEI event to 'help' the horse recover. I'm with you though, it would be nice to give them a liniment bath, etc. But I stick with icing, hand walking, and maybe seeing if there is an equine masseuse on grounds if my horse is especially stiff. Back on track blankets, magnetic therapies, infrared. But mostly icing and handwalking.

                                At home, before the event, I try to make sure all the products I own and use (shampoo, ointments, etc) on a regular basis are FEI safe especially if I'm less than a month out for an FEI show. I don't worry too much about small cuts as long as they look okay, I just make sure they're clean and I put vaseline on them to soften and help them heal faster. After galloping, I ice and wrap, no liniment. Etc, etc.

                                In other words, the easiest thing to do for FEI is to only use ice and water on the horse.
                                Can you send me a list of the shampoos and stuff you do use? I have heard that quick silver isn't allowed as well...we have a gray...go figure...
                                May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                                www.mmceventing.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Many people spend way too much money on stuff to put on, or in their horse. Many of these "helps" are not really needed and probably are just a way to part you from your money. A nice clean wound heals just fine.

                                  Stick with ice, walking, and a good rub down, you know, like in the "old days".

                                  It has worked for us, and I don't know anyone who has had their horse tested more often than my DD. The little horse was tested at every event he competed at one season, but they say it is random........

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
                                    Can you send me a list of the shampoos and stuff you do use? I have heard that quick silver isn't allowed as well...we have a gray...go figure...
                                    I use Quic Silver on Dante's legs, and so does everyone else that I know competing FEI. I can't remember where I found the ingredient list, and I might even have emailed them to get their ingredients. I have used it every single show including FEI, and I did get tested for drugs (well, the pony did, not me!) and nothing tested positive so I guess I was right about all my products!

                                    So here's my list:

                                    Quic Silver for legs/white
                                    Equinique shampoo - I just ran out of this and it's not made anymore, so I'm looking for a new one. Cowboy Magic has lavender in it, which in 2009 was illegal...Not sure if it still is or not, but I'd like to find a color enhancing shampoo. Looking into Quic Color or Gallop Shampoo.
                                    Pyranha fly spray
                                    Show sheen
                                    Quic Braid
                                    Absorbine HoofShield, I think.

                                    Couldn't find a liniment at the time. I've heard all kinds of things about Sore No More. I found all of the Sore No More products had arnica maybe? that was illegal. But others at my barn swore they'd been using it at FEI for years and never tested positive. Another girl said she talked to a rep recently and he swore up and down that all Sore No More products are legal for FEI. There's a debate about whether it's legal to use Sore No More as directed on the skin only, and it's only illegal if the horse ingests it. I dunno though, and I'm really not going to use a product on my FEI horse if it has an illegal ingredient listed on the product list.

                                    It might be nice if anyone who competes FEI could chime in on products they use at FEI events.
                                    Comedic Eventing on Facebook

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      I dunno about the Sore No More either. Missy did a stint as a working student at a BIGNR, and that was what they used....but again, it's really up for interpretation...I don't think it's a good idea....I agree, it has a listed ingredient that is illegal.

                                      Thanks for your list. Vetrolin is out right? We use to use the vetroline shampoo, and it just does the best job...but then we heard you couldn't use it.

                                      FEI people, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE feel free to chime in.

                                      THX.
                                      May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                                      www.mmceventing.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Agree with Tuppysmon. Think about all the stuff that washes off your horse and into drains and paddocks and creeks. Including unneccessary antibiotics!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X