• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Is this legal?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is this legal?

    I'm VERY sorry, as I realize stuff like this is posted all the time...
    But I'd like to know if this is legal for dressage:

    http://www.doversaddlery.com/happy-m...01678/cn/1464/

    I really appreciate you all taking the time to answer a silly question.
    Thanks SO much in advance!!!
    Emily
    Please visit the Donate page!

    https://justworldeventer.squarespace.com

  • #2
    hey how's it going?!

    Is this for your new horse. We need pics/videos/details!!!

    What's Kobie up to these days?

    (yes, the bit is legal).
    below is the list from the rule book. rotating snaffles are at the bottom in bold.

    1. Ordinary snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece
    2. Ordinary snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece
    3. Ordinary snaffle with jointed mouthpiece
    4. Racing snaffle
    5. Egg-butt snaffle: (a) with cheeks, (b) without cheeks
    6. Other type of snaffle with cheeks
    7. Fulmer
    8. Snaffle with upper cheeks only
    9. Rubber or leather snaffle jointed (a) or unjointed (b)
    10. Unjointed snaffle
    11. Hanging cheek snaffle
    12. Dr. Bristol
    13. Happy Mouth (includes loose ring, round ring, dee-ring, flat ring, egg butt, and full cheek styles
    14. Ordinary snaffle with double jointed mouth piece with lozenge
    15. Ordinary snaffle with rotating mouth piece
    16. Snaffle with rotating mouth piece. Only as illustrated.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
      hey how's it going?!

      Is this for your new horse. We need pics/videos/details!!!

      What's Kobie up to these days?

      (yes, the bit is legal).
      below is the list from the rule book. rotating snaffles are at the bottom in bold.

      1. Ordinary snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece
      2. Ordinary snaffle with double-jointed mouthpiece
      3. Ordinary snaffle with jointed mouthpiece
      4. Racing snaffle
      5. Egg-butt snaffle: (a) with cheeks, (b) without cheeks
      6. Other type of snaffle with cheeks
      7. Fulmer
      8. Snaffle with upper cheeks only
      9. Rubber or leather snaffle jointed (a) or unjointed (b)
      10. Unjointed snaffle
      11. Hanging cheek snaffle
      12. Dr. Bristol
      13. Happy Mouth (includes loose ring, round ring, dee-ring, flat ring, egg butt, and full cheek styles
      14. Ordinary snaffle with double jointed mouth piece with lozenge
      15. Ordinary snaffle with rotating mouth piece
      16. Snaffle with rotating mouth piece. Only as illustrated.
      Dr. Bristols are dressage legal??

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes!

        They have been for quite a while... the Happy Mouth in questions wasn't for a while, but they are now allowing the center roller. I only know because I showed in one for a while.
        Shoulders back, hands down, leg ON!

        http://mellvinshouse.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          I can't tell from the picture if the center piece rolls, or if it is fixed.

          If it is a roller, it is not legal for dressage. ("Roller" is different from "rotating center piece")
          If it is fixed, it is legal.

          Dr Bristol's have been legal for a while now. At least 5, possibly 10, years.
          Janet

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

          Comment


          • #6
            I believe I had that bit before, and if it is the same one the center does roll... just something to be aware of.. I liked the bit alot until my horse somehow managed to chew it to death :/

            Comment


            • #7
              The linked bit is not dressage legal. The center piece revolves freely (it "rolls").

              The term "rotating" in the rules refers to rotation as on a hinge, like this bit (despite how the terminology in the Happy Mouth naming convention of this bit is confusing when addressing the terminology in the rule book): http://www.adamshorsesupply.com/browse.cfm/4,6512.html
              "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

              Comment


              • #8
                Does anyone think you could make the center part NOT roll with a dab of super glue?

                I have held off from buying that bit because of this issue, even though it seems like a perfectly gentle bit that wouldn't seem to give anyone a undue advantage. Happy Mouth's other alternative for a double-joint is the french link, which is just not acceptable to my sensitive flower.

                Also, does anyone else think that it's perfectly arbitrary that the Sprenger WH with a roller IS legal and this isn't? Not that I mind (we use a WH), it just seems inconsistent.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by baxtersmom View Post
                  Also, does anyone else think that it's perfectly arbitrary that the Sprenger WH with a roller IS legal and this isn't? Not that I mind (we use a WH), it just seems inconsistent.
                  Completely agree. I'm sure it's getting hard to regulate with all the new bits coming out. I love the WH, and think it's great that it's legal for USEA, but it is not legal to use for dressage under USDF. This all gets so confusing!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                    I can't tell from the picture if the center piece rolls, or if it is fixed.

                    If it is a roller, it is not legal for dressage. ("Roller" is different from "rotating center piece")
                    If it is fixed, it is legal.

                    Dr Bristol's have been legal for a while now. At least 5, possibly 10, years.
                    Not over here. They are illegal under Dressage Ireland or Eventing Ireland. Or FEI as far as I know?

                    Funny the different rules. Over here grackles are allowed now, whereas in the UK they aren't for dressage.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sonoma City View Post
                      Completely agree. I'm sure it's getting hard to regulate with all the new bits coming out. I love the WH, and think it's great that it's legal for USEA, but it is not legal to use for dressage under USDF. This all gets so confusing!
                      Driven, in this case, by the FEI.
                      Janet

                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In the US the dr bristol is legal(it has been forever). In Canada its not(sounds like its not across the pond either). Also another little bit of information is that the lever noseband is legal for pure dressage, but not for eventing...interesting eh?
                        http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...r/DSC_1428.jpg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          from the description on the link it doesn't suggest that the middle piece rolls.
                          hmmm...

                          page 72
                          http://useventing.com/resources/file...k_2011_web.pdf
                          bit #16

                          that is a rotating KK! Not jointed.
                          http://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-sp...1-01892/cn/86/
                          http://kaboomeventing.com/
                          http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                          Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                            from the description on the link it doesn't suggest that the middle piece rolls.
                            You're right, it doesn't. Which is why that bit was such a bitter disappointment when I first ordered it and it showed up being a roller!
                            "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I emailed USEA about this specific bit last year. Here is the response I got:

                              "It would not be legal. The only rotating middle piece that is permitted is pictured in number 16 of the Permitted Snaffles (Appendix 4) in the rulebook. A roller like the one you have picture below doesn’t fit into the examples in the rulebook".

                              I have not checked to see if the picture numbers etc are the same in this year's rule book. My question related to use in dressage for eventing.

                              Whenever I have emailed them a picture and asked, they have been very responsive. Yes, I know the rules come from USEF, but I felt that USEA was the best place to start for the eventing specific rules.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Slightly off the subject, but is a "hanging cheek" listed in # 11 the same as the KK Baucher? The pic looks different.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Are you sure that this bit has the rotating piece? I've got the Happy Mouth double jointed elevator and the piece in the middle does not rotate. They make a double jointed one that does rotate but I've got the one that does not rotate (I assume they make the same for the snaffle mentioned by the OP).

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    It does not rotate. So it is legal, yes?
                                    purplnurpl, sent you a PM!!

                                    Thanks so much guys!
                                    Please visit the Donate page!

                                    https://justworldeventer.squarespace.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by SillyKobie View Post
                                      It does not rotate. So it is legal, yes?
                                      purplnurpl, sent you a PM!!

                                      Thanks so much guys!
                                      It is not legal. The plastic does spin on the middle link - and that is all that is needed to be considered a roller. Agreed the middle link itself does not spin but the plastic does.

                                      If you search hard enough you will find another thread discussing this exact bit in which Malcolm himself states it is not legal.

                                      Happy Mouth does make a true french link with a metal center that is legal.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by SimpleSimon View Post
                                        It is not legal. The plastic does spin on the middle link - and that is all that is needed to be considered a roller. Agreed the middle link itself does not spin but the plastic does.
                                        Exactly. I have two of the double-jointed loose-ring bits and one of the double-jointed elevator bits and on ALL of them, the plastic in the center piece spins freely.

                                        TBrescue: a hanging cheek is the same thing as a baucher. Bauchers are legal as long as the mouth-piece is legal as well.
                                        "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X