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Why was Southern Pines such a train wreck this weekend ??

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  • Why was Southern Pines such a train wreck this weekend ??

    I was looking at the results on event entries and was shocked at the scores.

    What happened?

    Not only were cross country scores a disaster, but show jumping looked pretty bad, too.

    Any opinions?
    Virginia Field Hunters
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  • #2
    Was the weather a factor? It was absolutely foul here this weekend. Horses were nutso everywhere.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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    • #3
      Friday was a spectacular day, bright sun, mid 60s. Then it got wet and cold for Sat and Sun. There were so many horses, maybe just an "odds game"?

      I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
      http://www.tamarackhill.com/

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      • #4
        Originally posted by denny View Post
        I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
        I absolutely agree that this needs some major discussing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, yes, yes.


          Originally posted by denny View Post
          I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.

          Comment


          • #6
            The inclement weather during cross country did not really start until late in the intermediate, so I would not say it could be counted as a huge determining factor in the difficulties.

            At all levels (notably preliminary through advanced) there were some legitimately difficult questions, and the distances left room for some interpretation and decision making on the part of the rider, eg. ride forward for the two or conservatively for the three in the preliminary sunken road, the long one stride into the intermediate water that required a hard ride in, the long two strides or short three from the bank to the corner at advanced. It is also early in the season, and the accuracy required at some combinations may have caught a few people by surprise. The winter rust may not be knocked off quite yet.

            Comment


            • #7
              What Itsabeautifullife said. There were some legitimitly tough questions on the courses at all levels. I watched some of the preliminary rides on Friday through the sunken road and saw only a handful of riders who correctly balanced horses through a left handed downhill approach to the first element.

              The show jumping course was lovely, deceptive in it's difficulty and quite frankly there was some bad riding.

              However. . . there were lots of folks who did have a good weekend. Personally we are extraordinarily pleased with our weekend results.
              Last edited by pegasusmom; Mar. 28, 2011, 08:27 AM.
              www.amiddle-agedmadwomantakesthereins.blogspot.com

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              • #8
                I decided after two bad years there that I think the place is built on an indian burial ground.

                The second time I was there my horse was completely un-nerved and I pulled up on prelim xc. Later that day two horses were put down.

                I always had good goes at the old location. Loved that place much more than the current one.

                I also think it is a very stiff course for this early in the year and not everyone understands that and many are NOT prepared!!

                I would only go back if I really, really needed it or for the AECs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by denny View Post

                  I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
                  In the U.K. the absolute limit for 1 rider per day is 5 horses. I think someone snuck 6 in once but afaik BE are hot on it now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Same in Ireland.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pegasusmom View Post
                      What Itsabeautifullife said. There were some legitimitly tough questions on the courses at all levels. I watched some of the preliminary rides on Friday through the sunken road and saw only a handful of riders who correctly balanced horses through a left handed downhill approach to the first element.

                      The show jumping course was lovely, deceptive in it's difficulty and quite frankly there was some bad riding.

                      However. . . there were lots of folks who did have a good weekend. Personally we are extraordinarily pleased with our weekend results.
                      Congratulations on an awesome 1st place! Your boy looked super and it was one of the very few clean stadium rounds. Next time we'll force your lids open so you have to watch
                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                      The Grove at Five Points

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by denny View Post
                        I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
                        Agree!! The weather was quite weird all weekend, we had horses at home who were nutso for no apparent reason all day, so maybe a big pressure change in the air led to some difficulties for sensitive horses as well?
                        Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                        Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                        We Are Flying Solo

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                        • #13
                          Number of rides per rider is something I have been concerned about for well over six years but everytime I brought it up, smarter and supposedly more vested people than I shot it down. So I stopped mentioning it. There are a lot of people that are going to rise up and beat THAT proposal down if you actually end up getting it in writing somehow. Be prepared. They are vehement, they have money behind them, the professionals as a class against it, organizers as a class against it, officials as a class against it because the organizers are against it and that is where their paychecks come from. Good luck. Our system is categorically set up for pro riders, and any influence to change that will be met with stiff resistance.
                          In my own personal experience, riders at the three star level with more than one ride, by the end of the day, actually lay down and take a NAP in the warmup area if there is a hold. I'm no doctor but I'm a human being and I know a little something about fatigue, and there is no question they are exhausted. I don't care how fit they are or how much they ride at home. Competition is DIFFERENT.
                          Kudos to those organizers who do already limit rides per rider on their own without a rule!
                          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

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                          • #14
                            Agree with this too. I also brought up number of rides per rider on these boards several years and was hooted down by those who said (a) these are trained professionals who know their limits and (b) this is how these professionals make their living, so it's unfair to put limits on the number of horses they can ride. Never mind that there are studies showing that even highly trained professionals fatigue after a certain time and do not know that they are fatigued, and never mind that the number 1 goal of our associations is supposed to be the welfare of the horse, not the financial welfare of the riders.

                            Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                            Number of rides per rider is something I have been concerned about for well over six years but everytime I brought it up, smarter and supposedly more vested people than I shot it down. So I stopped mentioning it. There are a lot of people that are going to rise up and beat THAT proposal down if you actually end up getting it in writing somehow. Be prepared. They are vehement, they have money behind them, the professionals as a class against it, organizers as a class against it, officials as a class against it because the organizers are against it and that is where their paychecks come from. Good luck. Our system is categorically set up for pro riders, and any influence to change that will be met with stiff resistance.
                            In my own personal experience, riders at the three star level with more than one ride, by the end of the day, actually lay down and take a NAP in the warmup area if there is a hold. I'm no doctor but I'm a human being and I know a little something about fatigue, and there is no question they are exhausted. I don't care how fit they are or how much they ride at home. Competition is DIFFERENT.
                            Kudos to those organizers who do already limit rides per rider on their own without a rule!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by denny View Post
                              Friday was a spectacular day, bright sun, mid 60s. Then it got wet and cold for Sat and Sun. There were so many horses, maybe just an "odds game"?

                              I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
                              Totally agree Denny - I know the pro's are fit and all, however it is alot of horses to ride in a competition environment.

                              Plus another thought: Over the past several years I have noticed that some events are heavily populated by a few pros and their students/clients. So let's say 5 pros come in with 7-8+ horses each = 35-40+ slots taken. Plus 3-5 students/clients each, some with 1-2 horses = 15+-25+ slots. On a conservative scale - 5 pros can take up to 65 slots. Some events are 1/2 to 3/4 pros and their students. This limits the number of slots for the amateur and YR riders. Limiting the opportunities for the next competitive generation. Unless of course they ride for one of those pros.

                              Also many of those organizers whose Spring events filled by the pros find their Fall events are under subscribed or are forced to cancel.
                              It is a bad business model to depend on 20% of your clients for 80+% of your 'profits' or in the case of organizers, competitors. Consider the events full today thanks to the pros and who had to turn away the 'local' competitors. Now if the pros retire or are lured to another competiton, would "you" (who were previously turned away) return to that competiton?
                              "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                              Courtesy my cousin Tim

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Dana, you should be proud! Congrats to you, Manny, Boyd, and Bo with your well-deserved 1st place! Yay yay yay!
                                "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

                                So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JAM View Post
                                  Agree with this too. I also brought up number of rides per rider on these boards several years and was hooted down by those who said (a) these are trained professionals who know their limits and (b) this is how these professionals make their living, so it's unfair to put limits on the number of horses they can ride. Never mind that there are studies showing that even highly trained professionals fatigue after a certain time and do not know that they are fatigued, and never mind that the number 1 goal of our associations is supposed to be the welfare of the horse, not the financial welfare of the riders.
                                  Hmmm, well, if riders over here of the indisputably exceptional calibre of William Fox-Pitt, Andrew Nicholson, Mark Todd, Pippa Funnell - should I go on, or does everyone get the picture - happily accept the limit, unless U.S. eventers are superhuman, perhaps they should accept a similar rule... do many events run on multiple days? that's 1 way around it obv, 2 or 3 diff levels on consecutive days.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by denny View Post

                                    I also wonder if it`s time to set some kind of limit on the number of horses one rider can ride. I know that our top guns are fit and strong, but it`s almost impossible to have the same focus when you`re riding 8 or 10. Worth discussing, perhaps. Not sure, but it should be looked at.
                                    YES
                                    Common sense dictates that there is a limit to how hard any one person can exert themselves and stay alert and effective. I've never understood how an owner can think their horse that's the 8th ride of of the day for one rider is getting any sort of ride like the first couple - and that's a hell of an expensive chance to take with a nice horse.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Time for a spin-off thread? Denny got another ball rolling.
                                      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                                      The Grove at Five Points

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by ACMEeventing View Post
                                        Time for a spin-off thread? Denny got another ball rolling.
                                        YES!

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