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The Fork - what can we do?

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  • The Fork - what can we do?

    We are entered in The Fork II. I am now quite concerned about the NEW CMP xc courses there.

    What would be the most effective way to voice my concern to ensure that the courses are fair? Or do we just pull out before the closing date on Tuesday?

    Would you: (and I guess this coulda/shoulda been a poll)

    1) Hope that all the bruhaha will knock some sense into CMP, owner, organizer
    2) contact owner
    3) contact organizer
    4) contact TD
    5) contact Area II chair
    6) do 2-5
    7) boycott, letting the organizer know the reason
    8) go, walk the course and WD if it is unreasonable
    9) other???

    Thanks! I've been brewing over this since Monday. I want to do not only what is best for my horse, but for everyone's and the sport.

    So, what would/are YOU doing?
    www.debracysporthorses.com
    Home of Sea Accounts xx
    AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
    "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

  • #2
    what level are you entered?
    Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.
    Confucius

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      It's Sea Accounts and Christan. They're entered at Prelim.
      www.debracysporthorses.com
      Home of Sea Accounts xx
      AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
      "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

      Comment


      • #4
        I would walk and see. If you decide not to do XC, see if you can do Dressage and SJ (make your own combined test).

        I have done that at a couple of events before when the weather has gotten really bad and made the XC soup, and people were sliding to the first fence; or the course is not what i was expecting and did not want to have a bad XC (young horse, we didn't have many XC outings and no place to school afterwards if we had problems).
        R.I.P. Bourneville Jester 12/06/06

        Comment


        • #5
          I think if I were you Cyndi I'd either pull out now (save the money) or walk it and decide then, especially since this is only his 3rd Prelim trip. On the other hand though, although I realize all of the emotions surrounding what happened at Redhills, 2 of those 3 accidents we know were not related to the course, and I have to think of all the people that were down there and completed the courses and did well. Another of our sponsored riders won the 3* and two others also did very well in both 3*'s.

          Now that said, I'm a big chicken anyway and would probably pull out, but at least go that day and walk the courses.

          Comment


          • #6
            To add to the discussion, apparently the organizer/facility has been contacted about this and the response was that they stood behind CMP, and the courses would be fair and safe and be designed by him.
            It would seem that if you didn't scratch by Tuesday, and ran as a CT, your money would still be going to the event, and that is not much protesting!

            Christan
            www.trainoreventing.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd pull out. He is a LOVELY horse (I saw him at SP - I LOFF him). I would enter some good courses that you know well in advance are going to be designed properly (Fair Hill, Seneca, Waredaca, Surefire, Longleaf, Loudoun).

              And please correct me if I'm wrong, but has it really been determined that the CD at RH was not related to the horses' deaths? That the stop and go nature of the design didn't have anything to do with the PA? Just seems like there have been too many horses at the A level going down because of cardiopulmonary issues in the past couple of years. Sinead's Tommy comes to mind - wasn't his death due to a heart isssue?
              Last edited by flyingchange; Mar. 20, 2008, 11:50 AM. Reason: wrong horse listed

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Interesting responses, and in light of all the threads this week, I a little disappointed. I had hoped that people would say to contact at least one of the people listed.

                I plan to contact everyone I can think of to VOICE my concerns about the course. Unless we find out something that changes our minds, we plan to go and pull if Christan doesn't like the look of it, BUT I want to be DAMNED sure that all the powers that be KNOW WHY. If they think I'm a PITA, then good! Maybe they'll think about what they are doing and take a closer look at the courses and not just give CMP carte blanche to do whatever the heck he wants because he's CMP. What a crock of doodoo.

                Viva la revolution!!!! We need to make our voices heard!



                BTW, back in the day, the event evaluation forms were part of the competitor packets. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore. In fact, we used to ask competitors to fill them out before they left the event...you get a lot more responses than hoping that people will download the form when they get home. Yes, it would the event a little money to make the copies, but I think it would be well worth it.
                www.debracysporthorses.com
                Home of Sea Accounts xx
                AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by flyingchange View Post
                  And please correct me if I'm wrong, but has it really been determined that the CD at RH was not related to the horses' deaths? That the stop and go nature of the design didn't have anything to do with the PA? Just seems like there have been too many horses at the A level going down because of cardiopulmonary issues in the past couple of years. Sinead's Glitterati comes to mind - wasn't his death due to a heart isssue?
                  I think you'd have a real hard time proving that it was the cause. There are too many variables and too many different things that could have caused that. I would think more horses would have gone down at a given time if that were the case.
                  Last edited by ponyjumper4; Mar. 20, 2008, 10:49 AM. Reason: .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    CM & Christan -

                    I'm sure you guys will have a good run if that is what you end up doing. I'll be rooting for you either way! I was really impressed by him at SP. Especially how quiet he was in stabling - you'd never know he was a stallion unless you looked. Really sweet and calm presence.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay your dilemma is what would create the most impact?
                      If you go, they pocket the money either way (a minus). If you pull out of x-c you can say that you saw the course and it was unfair (a plus)
                      If you don't go, they don't pocket the money (a plus). You really can't say if the course was bad or not ( a minus)
                      Look, been there, done that. And I've done both. I keep trying to go to cdcta because it's in my backyard and finally gave up. They don't deserve my money if they keep designing bad courses. BUT I can say I tried.
                      Is this the first time he's designed The Fork??? I can't remember. But 2 years ago, it was really really nice. (N-P levels)
                      Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Thanks flyingchange!

                        He is pretty special. I think we both feel like we have responsibility to do what's right by him and manage him the right way because he does have so much talent and potential. While pulling out would end our goal for the spring, if we aren't comfortable with how the course is designed, we will and regroup for the fall.

                        I encourage everyone entered in either of the Forks to email the organizer or TD and voice any concerns you may have. Doing it NOW will be much more effective than hoping and praying that the courses are fair.

                        PJ - if you look at the results, there was clearly something wrong with the courses. IIRC, out of ALL the divisions fewer than 5 (and I'm thinking it was 2!) made the time. And look at the percentages of finishers vs. starters...those are not typical numbers. Of course, had not all the tragedies occurred, perhaps the results would have been scrutinized the way they have. In any event, 2 riders, 3 horses and 1 critical injury have occurred on CMP courses just in FL in what just over a year? Something is not right.
                        www.debracysporthorses.com
                        Home of Sea Accounts xx
                        AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                        "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          LisaB - this is not the first time he's designed the course, but apparently they cut completely new tracks for all the levels this year and the jumps aren't placed yet. So no one knows what the courses will look like. Just a bit scary at this point in time!

                          Regardless of what we decide to do, the event evals will be completed and sent in.
                          www.debracysporthorses.com
                          Home of Sea Accounts xx
                          AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                          "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eventrider View Post
                            To add to the discussion, apparently the organizer/facility has been contacted about this and the response was that they stood behind CMP, and the courses would be fair and safe and be designed by him.
                            It would seem that if you didn't scratch by Tuesday, and ran as a CT, your money would still be going to the event, and that is not much protesting!

                            Christan

                            You were lucky...some did not get such a nice response on the phone. It was basically "take what you get, like it or lump it" The organizer has a lot of money tied up in the cache' of having CMP design his course.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CMP has designed the courses at the Fork for at least the last few years, if not more. The courses have always been tough, and if I recall, there have been problems at the prelim level there in the past....but that said, the last time I ran at prelim or higher there was in 2004 at Intermediate, so I cannot comment on recent courses/changes.

                              Christan
                              www.trainoreventing.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by cyriz's mom View Post
                                I think we both feel like we have responsibility to do what's right by him and manage him the right way because he does have so much talent and potential.
                                Even average horses with modest potential deserve that from their connections. Indeed, every single event horse deserves that.

                                I've been told the Fork is a max, tough, challenging prelim, consider a good last run before a one-star. If that is what you are looking for for this horse on that particular weekend, you'll probably find it.
                                Hindsight bad, foresight good.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  I just sent about 10 emails to everyone I could think of (including about 6 Area II chairs and BoG members) expressing my concerns about the course design and asking the powers that be to take an extra hard look at the questions asked this year and if in doubt to err on the side of the horse.

                                  I'm not sure what we'll do. Christan and I will be discussing it a lot over the next few days I'm sure. Someone has recommended dropping him back to Training for this event and while that would certainly be a safe option, to me it doesn't accomplish much...they still get our money, no stand is taken and he won the Training there last fall at NCDCTA. I'd rather give my money to another event if this one doesn't get that giving the course designer (regardless of who it is) carte blanche is no longer okay!

                                  So, don't know what we'll decide, but I feel better for at least DOING SOMETHING!!!

                                  Anyone have contact info for the TD or PoGJ? TD: Pat Maykuth, GA; Judges: Pres: Sally Ike (NJ)

                                  Thanks!
                                  www.debracysporthorses.com
                                  Home of Sea Accounts xx
                                  AHS/HV, ATA, GOV, RPSI, JC, AQHA, APHA, APtHA
                                  "LIKE" www.facebook.com/SeaAccounts

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    [QUOTE=cyriz's mom;3087759]

                                    Judges: Pres: Sally Ike (NJ)
                                    QUOTE]




                                    Good luck!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      organizer has a lot of money tied up in the cache' of having CMP design his course
                                      Honestly.... its probably pocket change to the owner.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Cyriz’s Mom and Christan,
                                        In my letter to Kevin, I had two requests -- one of which was to have an additional set of eyes look at the coarses at the Fork before the April event was run. I stressed that it was imperative that the Eventing community as a whole have a positive experience there. I am hoping that others expressed this as well. If Kevin responds to my specific requests, I will let you know...

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