• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Dressage score of 23?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sannois: Let me try and explain WHY it *may* matter to some people. One of the things no one has really mentioned (although we've talked about the ribbons) is that PLACINGS translate into year-end points in most of our areas (not penalty scores). Let me give you a personal example that might help you understand. Please note--I am not "sour grapes" about this--but I think it will help to illustrate.

    There is a local USEA HT that only offers "Open" divisions. The organizer determines the way the divisions are split. For some reason, the organizer put me in the division with quite a few local professionals this year. These are not "big names" but several of them have competed at advanced and have trained MANY horses novice to prelim. They (although their horses may be green) will be MUCH more effective at getting a green horse around than I can (and my horse IS green--I'm not riding a made horse). I had a nice dressage test and a clean stadium (except 1 time point) and clean x-c round. I ended on a score of 28.5. I was delighted with my horse and I felt I rode well. That ending score put me in 2nd place in that very competitive division. My friend was in another division at that level, consisting of a group of all amateurs. She did an average dressage test and pulled some rails on stadium. Her ending score was in the 50's. She TOO, ended up 2nd place. So, we both went home happy with our 2nd place ribbons. However, if I had been put in one of the other divisions, although my dressage score may have been slightly different (different judge) I still probably would've won the other division. Doesn't really matter, except that in our local eventing association, you get 5 points for a 1st place, and only 3 for a 2nd placing. For the Area VIII year-end award program I would've netted even MORE points for a win at that particular show. Being put in a different division at that one show *could* mean the difference between a year-end award for me and my horse. Not necessarily--but it IS tough to WIN a division at a large recognized horse trial.

    So, although I was completely happy with my horse and myself at that show--maybe you could see why it would be a bit frustrating to see someone else WIN a division on a significantly higher score just because they were in a different division. And another reason why, if given the choice, we may choose to enter the rider division (if we are qualified) so that we can be competing with our peers. I'll admit--that it's rather shallow to think in terms of points and ribbons--but as someone else brought up earlier--then why don't we all just ride HC? Because we are there to compete, to see how our work at home translates to success at a show, and YES, hope to take home a ribbon, or earn some year points. All of those things are motivators for why *some* people show and always will be.

    Comment


    • After wading though most of this discussion, I remembered why it is that I always enter the open divisions.

      The open divisions always go before the rider division. This means you showjump at the beginning of the level and therefore, can pack up the trailer and hit the road sooner. Sunday afternoon traffic in CA is brutal and we often face very long drives. I'll take tougher competition in the HT if it means facing less competition on the freeways.

      Comment


      • Not always, JER...I entered the "Championship" division instead of "Amateur" at the AEC for PRECISELY the reason you mentioned, hoping to get "on the road" earlier. Nope, they saved the big, freakin' 90+ division for LAST. Didn't get on the road until 3pm; the Training SJ had started at NINE AM!
        Click here before you buy.

        Comment


        • JER

          I hear ya... I would rather face many things before facing traffic!

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canterlope:
            Since I will be the first to admit that I am intimidated and feel like a fish out of water when I'm warming up for dressage surrounded by a sea of red coats, knowing that I will be riding against them, the difference has to be my personal feelings concerning our competitiveness in a division full of professionals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            See, I believe this is where we (amateurs) sell ourselves short...we tend to stay in our comfort zone. As the consumate perfectionist, I completely understand the feeling of staying in a place where I know I can be successful instead of pushing myself and possibily facing "failure."

            However, I find that when I ride with riders who I perceive as "better" I also ride better...to me there is nothing as inspiring as warming up with top notch riders. While on one hand, I sometimes feel overwhelmed by their skills and expertise, on the other hand it makes me want to "ride up" to their level. Someone mentioned a few pages ago that moving the very experienced Novice Riders into Open would "water down" the competition, I honestly believe that it would allow these riders to become even better riders and I'm pretty sure they'd give the "pros" a run for their money.

            To get back to the topic at hand , I think this conversation is quite exciting and it looks like ideas are being discussed instead of fought over. I've had the opportunity to talk with some folks about these ideas, and I truly believe that they have a lot of merit.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KellyS:
              Someone mentioned a few pages ago that moving the very experienced Novice Riders into Open would "water down" the competition, I honestly believe that it would allow these riders to become even better riders and I'm pretty sure they'd give the "pros" a run for their money.
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Not sure if you are refering to my comments. If so, that's not what I meant. I think that the quality of the open novice divisions would remain high -- it's the quality and legitimacy of divisions for "inexperienced amateurs" that I would worry about.

              I still think that having a division for which you become ineligible after meeting certain standards of proficiency (like accumulating a certain number of points) defeats the purpose. Winning such a division essentially means that you are the best of anyone who isn't better than you. And there is a self enforcing mechanism that guarantees that as soon as some people start to become really proficient, instead of raising the level of the whole division, they will just leave the division.

              Someone described a scenario in which a rider who is second in a competitive, open division receives the same number of points towards a year end award as the person who is second in a less competitive, rider division (and, presumably, fewer points than the person who won the less competitive division). I think that is justification for changing the way year end points are calculated -- perhaps by awarding them separately by division (open, rider, horse) -- but not justification for creating "limit" divisions. Then, the disparity might be even greater between the winning (or second place) pairs in the open versus the limit division, but they'd again receive the same points. I don't see how the limit division solves the problem related to year end awards. --Jess

              Comment


              • Nope, I was referring to someone else's post, but I don't have time to go find it!

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAGold:
                I still think that having a division for which you become ineligible after meeting certain standards of proficiency (like accumulating a certain number of points) defeats the purpose. Winning such a division essentially means that you are the best of anyone who isn't better than you. And there is a self enforcing mechanism that guarantees that as soon as some people start to become really proficient, instead of raising the level of the whole division, they will just leave the division. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Ahhh...but I am thinking in terms of each individual rider's proficiency, not the proficiency of the division on a whole. That is very hard to control...it is very dependent on a lot of different factors including the Area, who is that division that weekend, etc.

                However, I think of it this way...a new Novice rider is for the most part going to keep improving their performance as they gain experience - they may start as low man on the totem pole, but as they get the hang of eventing, their performance keeps improving. At some point, a rider may improve their performance to the point where they are consistently scoring well and often winning in the Rider division. A lot of riders choose to "move up" to Training at this point, but others choose to stay at Novice. However, by moving into the "Open" division they can continue improving their performance (and face new challenges) while leaving the "Rider" division for the up and coming riders.

                This argument could go around and around for ages...there are very good points on both sides.

                Comment

                Working...
                X