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Spinoff: What does the USEA do to show it's gratitude to landowners and horse show organizers?

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    Spinoff: What does the USEA do to show it's gratitude to landowners and horse show organizers?

    This whole mess with Plantation got me thinking (stand back) about how dependent our sport is on the generosity and hard work of so many farm owners and show organizers. It seems to me, based on what has happened here and at Richland, quite fashionable to take them for granted or worse, anger them to the point where they wish they never had any association with USEA. Being a low level ammie aka a "smurf" I'm not privy to how that relationship is maintained on good terms to facilitate communication, solve problems and be true partners. Anyone know?

    #2
    Based on how Plantation Field debacle has been handled....I would say that eventing on private lands is destined for the dustbin of history.

    Look at the history of the grand names of eventing that are lost to the history books
    • Hamilton Farms
    • Ledyard Farms (Neil Ayers farm)
    • Chesterland
    • Menfelt
    • Radnor
    Those are names are what I remember now off the top of my head.....I am sure others on COTH can add more names that exist no more.

    The point is that if people have a political agenda....it is best to get on your soap box to preach from your own real estate and not ruin it for the smurfs.

    If I were a large landowner ....and I am going along minding my own business.... when some sort of publicity brings negative attention to me and my family because someone does not like my land's name..... you can kiss access to my land goodbye.
    Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
    Alfred A. Montapert

    Comment


      #3
      I've been out of the eventing loop for a long time, what happened with Radnor??? I used to live near there and it was one of the most anticipated equestrian events in the Philadelphia area.

      Also what happened with Richland? I saw you mention something with the USEA in the other thread but didn't see any details.
      Talking to some people is like folding a fitted sheet.

      Comment


        #4
        And what happened at Menfelt? I thought the property got sold?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by AffirmedHope View Post

          Also what happened with Richland? I saw you mention something with the USEA in the other thread but didn't see any details.
          https://eventingnation.com/after-17-...no-longer-run/

          Quote from linked article:

          The Willmarths said that running Richland brought them “the thrill of watching the top riders in the U.S. and Canada ride cross country on our farm … the opportunity to meet, work alongside and become lifelong friends with two of the best cross-country designers in the world, Ian Stark and Mike Etherington-Smith … hearing Richland Park announced at the Rolex Kentucky Three-Day Event as part of a rider’s resume of wins” and many more positives.

          But the Willmarths said they also faced “having to deal with organizations that are not organizer-friendly and are far too political. For us Richland Park has been all about the horses and not about the politics of the game. It should not be so difficult for an organizer to add a division, nor should it take years to do so.”

          I'm so sad I never got to ride there (or even see it.) The one year I entered, my horse died. Next horse wasn't ready before they stopped running.


          Not big events, but ones gone from Area IV that I know of on private land: Hidden Hollow, Dunham Woods, Catalpa Corner, St. James Farm, Indian Hills, Argyle Creek. Tempel Farms used to host Young Riders, would love to enter an event there. Hunter Oaks, I've wondered if there's any chance of it coming back?
          That's fine, many of us have slid down this slippery slope and became very happy (and broke) doing it. We may not have a retirement, but we have memories ...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by vagabondrider View Post
            And what happened at Menfelt? I thought the property got sold?
            Yes. The owners divorced and the property was sold. Nothing to do with USEA or public pressure.
            Janet

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

            Comment


              #7
              There are plenty of HT on private land in Area Ii. Waredaca, Seneca Valley, Hunt Club, Olney, CDCTA-and that is just off the top of my head.
              Janet

              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                So.....great info, but what is being done to prevent what has just happened and to keep what we have? Is there any official acknowledgment or public recognition of gratitude or appreciation for those who open up their private land to us?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by OTTBs View Post

                  https://eventingnation.com/after-17-...no-longer-run/

                  Quote from linked article:

                  The Willmarths said that running Richland brought them “the thrill of watching the top riders in the U.S. and Canada ride cross country on our farm … the opportunity to meet, work alongside and become lifelong friends with two of the best cross-country designers in the world, Ian Stark and Mike Etherington-Smith … hearing Richland Park announced at the Rolex Kentucky Three-Day Event as part of a rider’s resume of wins” and many more positives.

                  But the Willmarths said they also faced “having to deal with organizations that are not organizer-friendly and are far too political. For us Richland Park has been all about the horses and not about the politics of the game. It should not be so difficult for an organizer to add a division, nor should it take years to do so.”

                  I'm so sad I never got to ride there (or even see it.) The one year I entered, my horse died. Next horse wasn't ready before they stopped running.


                  Not big events, but ones gone from Area IV that I know of on private land: Hidden Hollow, Dunham Woods, Catalpa Corner, St. James Farm, Indian Hills, Argyle Creek. Tempel Farms used to host Young Riders, would love to enter an event there. Hunter Oaks, I've wondered if there's any chance of it coming back?
                  Add Robke's Run a couple of years ago.
                  "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I don't know if they do anything....they should. I'm on the board of a land trust and work with a company that has large amounts of land, some open to the public, some not. I can tell you that land being open to the public (in any sort of fashion) is increasingly a headache, legally, financially, and daily. If there is public access than the public feels a degree of entitlement and ownership, which is often at odds with owners'....and quite frankly usually comes with trash, property damage, harassment of livestock and wildlife, and any number of charming complaints.
                    Eventing would be wise to aggressively pursue relationships with landowners that give them, the landowners, genuine benefits not just 'feel goods'/

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by B and B View Post
                      I don't know if they do anything....they should. I'm on the board of a land trust and work with a company that has large amounts of land, some open to the public, some not. I can tell you that land being open to the public (in any sort of fashion) is increasingly a headache, legally, financially, and daily. If there is public access than the public feels a degree of entitlement and ownership, which is often at odds with owners'....and quite frankly usually comes with trash, property damage, harassment of livestock and wildlife, and any number of charming complaints.
                      Eventing would be wise to aggressively pursue relationships with landowners that give them, the landowners, genuine benefits not just 'feel goods'/
                      As a board member who works closely with landowners, what do you think would be genuine benefits that could be offered and appreciated by them? Trail work days by volunteers, for example? More following of the "takenothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints" sort of thing?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by B and B View Post
                        I don't know if they do anything....they should. I'm on the board of a land trust and work with a company that has large amounts of land, some open to the public, some not. I can tell you that land being open to the public (in any sort of fashion) is increasingly a headache, legally, financially, and daily. If there is public access than the public feels a degree of entitlement and ownership, which is often at odds with owners'....and quite frankly usually comes with trash, property damage, harassment of livestock and wildlife, and any number of charming complaints.
                        Eventing would be wise to aggressively pursue relationships with landowners that give them, the landowners, genuine benefits not just 'feel goods'/
                        THIS ^^^^^

                        Dressage at Hickstead is shutting the doors.
                        https://horsesport.com/horse-news/en...ad-shuts-down/

                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                        Alfred A. Montapert

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

                          THIS ^^^^^

                          Dressage at Hickstead is shutting the doors.
                          https://horsesport.com/horse-news/en...ad-shuts-down/
                          Except that sounds as though it is financial, not due to rudeness. You can't make people spend more than they are willing or able to spend, no matter how much they appreciate the location and amenities.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by MorganSercu View Post

                            Except that sounds as though it is financial, not due to rudeness. You can't make people spend more than they are willing or able to spend, no matter how much they appreciate the location and amenities.
                            This is an equestrian event, which has been held at a private facility for almost 30 years.... that has now closed its doors.

                            We riders need to appreciate our land owners.
                            Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                            Alfred A. Montapert

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

                              This is an equestrian event, which has been held at a private facility for almost 30 years.... that has now closed its doors.

                              We riders need to appreciate our land owners.
                              Yes, I read the article. She has been keeping it going with private funds. Hers. It now costs her too much. I didn't see where she said people treated the property cavalierly or she felt unappreciated. Discretionary spending is just that and you can't shake donations or entry fees out of unwilling pockets.
                              Last edited by MorganSercu; Sep. 20, 2020, 03:53 PM.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I believe that private lands used for public events receives a hefty tax benefit.

                                I think equestrian organizations should gear up to purchase land of their own, should have been doing that for ages. Relying on private property owners is risky and short sighted.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by punchy View Post
                                  I believe that private lands used for public events receives a hefty tax benefit.
                                  Rare. Very, very rare.
                                  The first step is starting to be taken: recognizing that large tracts of undeveloped land have a public benefit and therefore should not be taxed at the same level as a house. There are some states that have tax incentives for preservation. In my state, for example, PA490 taxes forestry/farm land (assuming it meets the criteria) at a lower rate for property taxes than if it was assessed at its regular rate for residential purposes. 490 does nothing about public access; it has however saved untold numbers of farms and open space areas from development, my family's 160 acres included.. I do know that some states do encourage it with a further reduction in property tax rate, Maine does.
                                  However, the real headache for the landowner is two fold: the cost of upkeep for the public use, even a hiking trail requires upkeep. And the big bad guys: the cost of the liability insurance, and the cost of a director's/board insurance if a nonprofit/llc/trust owns the land. The latter keeps my land trust board members for example from being personally sued (that is to say, their personal assets threatened) if someone thinks that the land trust has acted incorrectly.
                                  What can horse people do?
                                  Push for more acts to support private landowners' conservation of the land first and foremost, without that there is no horse industry. So, support that reduction in property tax for farms, open space, forestry land, wetlands, etc!
                                  Support and or encourage improvement in how liability is assessed. Should the landowner be responsible or is it 'at your own risk' Arkansas for example,
                                  • Arkansas - A.C.A. § 18-11-304: “An act to encourage a landowner to make land and water areas available to the public for recreational purposes; to limit the liability of a landowner who allows the public to use the landowner’s property for recreational purposes; and for other purposes.'
                                  That sort of law has to be more common and more robust, even that one is a very tentative step.
                                  Both of those things are only going to be accomplished if the USEA and other equestrian organizations does in fact get political...in support of its members interests. I won't go farther into that snake pit. I don't know enough for one thing.

                                  Finally, the upkeep of the courses, especially the jumps. Frankly, this burden should not fall entirely on to the property owner.

                                  On the landowner side: I can't figure out how to cross post, but Over and Onward's post here says a great deal about what needs to happen on that side of the equation

                                  https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...ew-ones-emerge

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Does USEA need to do anything for the landowners? It's a real question and I only ask it because the USEA only sanctions the events. The producers put on the event and so I would think that it would be those people who need to take care of the landowner since they would be the ones contracting with the landowner for the use of the land. The USEA wouldn't really have any interaction with the landowners would they? Serious question because I honestly do not know about USEA events.

                                    For other events that I am involved in, it is the producers who contract with the landowners and who are responsible for everything to do with the care of the property and insurance of the events. The sanctioning bodies, many different organizations in this case, have nothing to do with the lease of the facilities and land.
                                    Rhode Islands are red;
                                    North Hollands are blue.
                                    Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                    Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Just to throw some more ideas into the mix: we don’t own enough land to host an event, but the hunt comes through a couple of times each season. The members are always offering polite greetings and thanks as they ride through. I know eventers are in a different head space, but how many thank the landowners or members of the organizing group? I have volunteered for many years at my local event, and used to volunteer even when competing. I noticed that riders could and would find officials/ landowner with complaints but rarely with thanks so that’s point one.

                                      Point two: when we acquired this farm the town approached us with a deal. They would chip in quite a bit of $ to designate most of the acreage as open space which would also have ongoing tax benefits. But the public would have access. All the time. Through a working farm. The liability of that scared the heck out of us: imagine a herd of toddlers running into a paddock to pet the horses😳, the dog walkers who just won’t keep their dogs leashed, the teens who decide to have a beer party out back etc. and then there would be the lack of privacy because some people do not accept limits. I’m sure you all can imagine additional scenarios.

                                      Honestly, I don’t know how landowners and organizers do it, but I sure appreciate it when they do!
                                      They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                                      Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by AffirmedHope View Post
                                        I've been out of the eventing loop for a long time, what happened with Radnor??? I used to live near there and it was one of the most anticipated equestrian events in the Philadelphia area.

                                        Also what happened with Richland? I saw you mention something with the USEA in the other thread but didn't see any details.
                                        I was told they were having a tougher and tougher time getting volunteers. If I remember correctly the Boy Scouts did the parking as a community service type deal but getting jump judges, ring stewards, bit checks, jump judges, people to set up and take down rings, scribes etc... was getting hard to do. I volunteered the last year it ran. The volunteer coordinator boarded at the same barn. I wasn't eventing then and was a bit hobbled as I had ACL surgery in June and Radnor was fall. I got to be ring steward so I didn't have to move around too much. He was pretty desperate for volunteers.

                                        They do have a horse trial there in October but it appears to only be Novice, Training and Prelim.
                                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                        Comment

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