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Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

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    Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

    And yes, Plantation does have everything to do with slavery. I have been asking every person I see today and every single person says - "reminds me slaves". Who do you think worked those Plantation fields?
    Have you been to Plantation Field? Do you know the extensive history of the Chester County area? Do you understand Quakers and their beliefs? Have you read a thing that has been posted about the history of this farm? Do you understand that the definition of “plantation” does not necessarily refer to a farm in the South worked by slaves?

    You are not as woke as you think you are, and your condescending comments make you look bad.
    "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

    Comment


      Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

      The name is pretty much the monument to that time.
      Why don’t you just go through the dictionary and gives us a list of words that can no longer be used?
      "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

      Comment


        Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

        There are no monuments to slavery at Plantation Field.
        The entire point just flew over your head didn’t it? I encourage you to go back and read. The name is a ode to slavery and needs to change. As I previously said, words have meaning. Plantation is deeply associated with slavery and not only in the states.
        "No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world."
        -Dead Poets Society

        Comment


          Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

          Have you been to Plantation Field? Do you know the extensive history of the Chester County area? Do you understand Quakers and their beliefs? Have you read a thing that has been posted about the history of this farm? Do you understand that the definition of “plantation” does not necessarily refer to a farm in the South worked by slaves?

          You are not as woke as you think you are, and your condescending comments make you look bad.
          History of the word: https://www.nationalgeographic.org/e...tation-system/
          "No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world."
          -Dead Poets Society

          Comment


            Originally posted by poltroon View Post


            I only know Glaccum from his writings. I'm curious, from those who know him better, and who think the issue is that EN mishandled it: what approach would you take to him that you feel would have been persuasive, assuming you were starting from a blank slate?
            I've known him since 1990. There's no route that could have been taken to get him to agree to a name change with the reasons stated, culture awareness, 2020 etc.

            The only path through would have been to circumvent Denis and go through the landowner/board members. And even that would have been highly doubtful.

            Best best path would have been to go through folks the board holds dear, riders and fellow landowners/wealthy white folks.

            But overall, any way you cut it would have been a major up hill slog.

            Em

            "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

            Comment


              Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

              Have you been to Plantation Field? Do you know the extensive history of the Chester County area? Do you understand Quakers and their beliefs? Have you read a thing that has been posted about the history of this farm? Do you understand that the definition of “plantation” does not necessarily refer to a farm in the South worked by slaves?

              You are not as woke as you think you are, and your condescending comments make you look bad.
              We're not woke enough and she's been woke since like, June, so come ON already. Time for your daily woke-dose!

              Someone lit up EN on FB with a bunch of links to articles and such about pine plantations. It would be funny if the reality weren't so sad.

              Comment


                Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

                Have you been to Plantation Field? Do you know the extensive history of the Chester County area? Do you understand Quakers and their beliefs? Have you read a thing that has been posted about the history of this farm? Do you understand that the definition of “plantation” does not necessarily refer to a farm in the South worked by slaves?

                You are not as woke as you think you are, and your condescending comments make you look bad.
                Do you understand that slavery is associated with the word Plantation? Your ignorance makes you look bad.

                And ignorance is the nicest word possible I could come up with.
                Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

                Repurposed Racehorses
                https://repurposedracehorses.weebly.com/

                Comment


                  Originally posted by MustangSavvy View Post

                  The entire point just flew over your head didn’t it? I encourage you to go back and read. The name is a ode to slavery and needs to change. As I previously said, words have meaning. Plantation is deeply associated with slavery and not only in the states.
                  Nothing went over my head, but it sure went over yours. There were no plantations owning slaves in Chester County, Pennsylvania. The word “plantation” does not just mean what you assume it means.

                  Sadly, one word just lost many underprivileged kids from Philadelphia a chance to enjoy horses. Did that go over your head?
                  "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

                  Comment


                    So ... to look at slightly more complete picture of the objections of property owner Mr. Cuyler Walker to considering if the name "Plantation Fields" still works as the name of the event ... an event that he claims to leave in the hands of the organizer, so not sure why he would care what the event calls itself ... and if the event changed its name, that wouldn't necessarily have to affect the name of the farm which otherwise many people would never know ...

                    First of all, if the event is about 20 years old, then the name "Plantation" was selected in the era of the late 1990's - early 2000's. Why didn't someone ask the question then? That was well into the period when "plantation" was in social discussion as to objectionable connotations. How did an event that intended to become large and public miss on that? But anyway, that's the name that someone wanted, either oblivious or indifferent to the possible larger implications.

                    Now, Mr. Cuyler Walker feels that the question about the name "Plantation" implies that he and his family are racist. So to show that he will not tolerate this implication, he shuts it all down.

                    What he (apparently) did not do: Contact some of his friends and connections who are black and ask for their thoughts on the matter. Gather the opinions of black people (who are the most directly concerned) from both within Unionville who do know the property's history, and from outside the community who do not know the history.

                    What he (apparently) also did not do: Having considered where society generally and POC specifically are going on these issues, decided to take the opportunity to bring in the local history in a positive and uplifting way. A new name that invokes the underground railroad, or Unionville, or journey to freedom, or something like that. Maybe, with the community's guidance and help, put together a big outdoor plaque to be erected in a public area of the event, describing the local history and even pointing visitors to guided tours of underground railroad sites. Do all this with fanfare and inclusiveness. With positive spirit, enthusiasm - and pride.

                    Opportunities missed! By Mr. Cuyler Walker. And by Mr. Denis Glaccum, event organizer, who has a share in this, don't know how much. Would guess that some or all of this was probably suggested by someone, at some point, because it is the idea that naturally occurs in this situation.

                    Instead, Mr. Walker refers to the inner city riding program, without explaining quite what it has to do with the event. Does the event benefit the program? Not sure. If not, it seems that he is trying to show his connection to the black community. But in doing so he categorizes, implies, that black people are "inner city", disadvantaged, and need to "learn responsibility" (I know, it's youth and learning responsibility would do all youth some good). Context is everything here -- in the context of the youth program, all that sounds great, but in the context of a 4* event, this could be problematic if it is the *only* connection to POC. How else are POC being welcomed to ride and participate in the "Plantation Fields" horse trials?

                    Then as a flag-on-a-hill for his family's principals, he invokes the Boy Scouts. And how involved his family has been in its support of the Boy Scouts for many, many decades.

                    Somehow supporting the Boy Scouts for lo these many decades has something to do with the equestrian media questioning of the name of the horse trials, and why the horse trials should be dropped into a volcano rather than consider a name change to something other than "Plantation".

                    Oh, lordy lordy lordy.

                    The Boy Scouts have a very troubled history when it comes to racism and inclusion generally. It was founded for and for most of its existence it has primarily catered to white middle-class and upper-middle-class boys in suburban communities. I remember vividly in my home town the struggle to include a broader racial group of scouts. Integrating the schools was easey-peasey compared with integrating the Boy Scouts. (The Girls Scouts did it in my town with little fanfare or issues.)

                    In the early 2000's, in the general timeframe of the organization of this event, the Boy Scouts won a Supreme Court victory allowing them to continue to exclude gays, even though several of their own chapters objected vociferously to the ban. Click on the article in the link so that it becomes larger and readable for some explosive descriptions of the inner turmoil of the Boy Scouts.
                    https://www.jstor.org/stable/40441392

                    From the founding in the early 1900's the organization was openly racist. In my youth, in my town, it was easily the least racially inclusive youth organization other than those openly dedicated to white supremacy (we had a couple of those).
                    https://www.theatlantic.com/national...scouts/272683/

                    In recent years the Boy Scouts have made sweeping changes for inclusion. As of 2020 they announced a new merit badge in support of Black Lives Matter, and some requirements to be sure that their members are getting with this program.
                    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/u...ion-eagle.html


                    Does everyone know the particular history of the Boy Scouts and Mr. Cuyler Walker? Or of the name "Plantation Field"? No they do not, and how could they. To the larger public perception, those local, personal details will never reach them. They will ever only know the larger societal connotations.

                    Perception is everything, but Mr. Walker and Mr. Glaccum don't seem to get that. So now they don't have an event any more because one or both of them would rather torch it than evolve.


                    Anyway. Now that EN has been turned inside out and raked over the coals by those who are just fine with the name "Plantation", I wonder if the same people are willing to take a harder look at WHY Mr. Cuyler Walker gave the reasons he did for his decision. If he's going to go front & center with this thing, turning eventing upside down and all, then some accountability needs to go his way, as well. And Mr. Glaccum as well. Why "Plantation", why did he (they) not bring some POC into his decision, why? Just IMO.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Rnichols View Post

                      Do you understand that slavery is associated with the word Plantation? Your ignorance makes you look bad.

                      And ignorance is the nicest word possible I could come up with.
                      You answered none of the questions in the original post.

                      And thank you for your judgement of my ignorance. I guess I’d be hurt if it actually mattered.
                      "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

                        You answered none of the questions in the original post.

                        And thank you for your judgement of my ignorance. I guess I’d be hurt if it actually mattered.
                        The answers to those questions are irrelevant.......plantation is associated with slavery, the end. Why this is even up for debate is mind boggling to me.
                        Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

                        Repurposed Racehorses
                        https://repurposedracehorses.weebly.com/

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Rnichols View Post

                          The answers to those questions are irrelevant.......plantation is associated with slavery, the end. Why this is even up for debate is mind boggling to me.
                          In your mind...
                          "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by cutter99 View Post

                            In your mind...
                            Oh give me a ****ing break. Yes only in my mind is the word plantation associated with slavery. How dense you must be.
                            Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

                            Repurposed Racehorses
                            https://repurposedracehorses.weebly.com/

                            Comment


                              The level of name calling does not make either side look good here.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by cutter99 View Post
                                ...........
                                Sadly, one word just lost many underprivileged kids from Philadelphia a chance to enjoy horses.
                                No, it didn't.

                                One cantankerous individual did that. On his own.

                                (Apparently on his own, from the info so far.)

                                And the word is *not* just a word like any other word. It has societal meaning that goes far beyond what it means to you. Or to Cuyler Walker and Denis Glaccum.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                                  Disappointing that Doug Payne just shared this article that totally misses the mark https://www.thehorseofdelawarevalley...M0POiSEprRpfi8
                                  Does anyone else find the repeated reference to "blacks" in this editorial (as opposed to black people or POC) incredibly cringey?

                                  I am not a huge fan of EN and have always viewed them as a glorified fan blog. As a significant news source in the industry their contributions to journalism on issues like safe course design, rider/horse fatalities and outright horse abuse (namely, ML) have been at best underwhelming. I think the people who say they jumped at a chance to signal virtue are probably correct.

                                  Even so, that doesn't mean EN is wrong in trying to find a mutually-agreeable way for THEIR outlet to skirt around use of the "Plantation" name. I think it's pretty clear at this point that the organizer and landowner massively overreacted and had no intention of ever discussing it or taking EN's concern seriously. The cancellation of the event says a hell of a lot more about them than EN.
                                  "Why would anyone come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense!"

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Rnichols View Post

                                    Oh give me a ****ing break. Yes only in my mind is the word plantation associated with slavery. How dense you must be.
                                    No, I understand the background of this particular piece of property and the area around it.

                                    It would be nice if you refrained from name calling.
                                    "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by AffirmedHope View Post
                                      So what are everybody's thoughts on Live Oak International? It's held at a venue named Live Oak Plantation, which is also a major breeder of Thoroughbred. I wasn't able to find much about the history (there was a Live Oak Plantation in Lee County that had slaves) but holding an equestrian event at a venue in a Southern state with the word plantation in it seems problematic.

                                      http://www.liveoakstud.com/aboutus.html
                                      As long as I have been around and aware of Live Oak, it's been "Live Oak"... maybe add "Stud", depending on which part of the very large (and diverse) farm you are talking about and add "International" for the annual event. But on every commercial facing and farm road signage it's "Live Oak" complete with a picture of a ... you guessed it... Live Oak (two guesses on what is found on every square inch of the property). Nobody is competing in an event that is as problematically named as PF (and best as I can tell, no one was asking PF the venue to change it's name, but rather PF the event). Honestly I do not EVER remember it going by anything but LOS (and LOI) and between growing up in Florida, competing in combined driving and working at racing/breeding farms, Live Oak was somewhat positioned to be on my radar!

                                      Which is all by way of saying it appears Live Oak ditched the plantation portion of the name a very long time ago for a great many aspects of their activities. The original farm name has some historical connections to racing, it was originally founded by P.A.B. Widener, Joseph Widener's grandson (aka Widener Handicap, owned Belmont, founded Hialeah Racetrack). Maybe the decision to keep the original historical name upon acquisition in '95 was also accompanied by a decision to rebrand as LO and let the back half of the name slip quietly away...


                                      Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                                        A lot of things are about race because the POC are still facing oppression, I'm not sure about Germany but perhaps the Jews feel like enough has been done in Germany, and don't feel like they face constant oppression and fear.

                                        they weren't asking to change the name of the farm, just the EVENT. What is the big deal, really. Seems like a pretty small gesture to welcome a community.
                                        As far as the Jews, if you travel throughout the Middle East they certainly have fear. Real fear. People protest that the genocide never happened! The property owner has the right to dictate the name as they own the property. It has been called that for how many years? If this has never been an issue before why is it now? Is it only racist now? Would you have to say Fair Hill or Wardeca should change the name too? The property I believe has been donated. Be thankful for that. It is getting harder and harder to have events that are friendly to all levels.
                                        If a word has multiple meanings, but actually I believe this is not true in this case, it is an association; understand where it came from. If losing this venue is worth being PC so be it. We are losing ground in a sport that cannot afford to. Move the event then...wait... there is no place to move it to.. pennywise and dollar foolish... The people calling for this should put up the money and find a place to replace it...
                                        I live in an area where segregation never existed, I went to school with all kinds. ALL children had the chance to do what they wanted. If the child chose not to that was their choice. Opportunity is there just not taken advantage of.
                                        Why aren't there more white guys in the NBA? There is no right answer except that it has been this way for a long time so why now? If you do not like it do not go...but to have the event shut down, is it worth it?
                                        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
                                        Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
                                        "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                                          Is that an acceptable phrase in a thread where the entire topic is - that word can mean something else?

                                          Shouldn't we come up with something else to say things are opposites?


                                          Question from someone who is afraid to google it on their work computer - what does 'woke' and 'wokeness' mean?
                                          According to Merriam-Webster, in this context it means: "aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)"

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