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Turmoil at Equestrian Australia - Olympics in jeopardy?

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    Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

    The FEI and NF didn't do squat until it became apparent that the apparent rapist and his gf were trying to drive the victim to suicide. Too little too late IMO
    These are allegations and the incident was outside the sport.

    Inside the sport, accountability and suspensions seem harder to come by, even when there are human fatalities involved.

    What I’m saying is that it’s all a bit of hand-waving for FEI/NF to suspend someone for criminal charges pending resolution of those charges.

    Where there’s actual pain for the FEI/NF - in terms of holding officials accountable or even informing membership of issues on a particular designer’s courses - nothing is done. And this is something that actually falls under the purview of those orgs.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by JER View Post

      These are allegations and the incident was outside the sport.

      Inside the sport, accountability and suspensions seem harder to come by, even when there are human fatalities involved.

      What I’m saying is that it’s all a bit of hand-waving for FEI/NF to suspend someone for criminal charges pending resolution of those charges.

      Where there’s actual pain for the FEI/NF - in terms of holding officials accountable or even informing membership of issues on a particular designer’s courses - nothing is done. And this is something that actually falls under the purview of those orgs.
      I don't think it matters where it happens if he is a member though, correct? With SS arent they suspended once charged?

      I know what you are saying about the fatalities, I mean, preaching to the choir for me lol At least they had the inquest and some actual recommendations for the sport.
      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

      Comment

        Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
        I don't think it matters where it happens if he is a member though, correct? With SS arent they suspended once charged?
        This is the actual EA policy (from their website);
        Formal Report – Police or External Agency
         If a report is made to the police the matter is considered under a criminal process and except for taking precautionary action Equestrian Australia will not undertake any internal investigation until the criminal process is concluded.
         If a report is made to an external agency in addition to Equestrian Australia then the matter can be investigated concurrently unless it is determined that this would negatively impact either process.
         Equestrian Australia will support the police and other external agencies with any formal report made to them including where they progress to an investigation.
        Outcome of criminal process
         If a person bound by the Policy is convicted of a criminal offence then the conduct of behaviour that they have been found to have committed can be relied upon to establish a disciplinary offence and can be considered to determine sanctions.
         If a person bound by the Policy is acquitted, Equestrian Australia can still take disciplinary action if there is sufficient evidence that the unacceptable behaviour which constitutes a breach of discipline under the policy occurred.
        Not sure where this falls.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Blugal View Post

          I think the ship has sailed on "scale the show biz back". The Event Rider Masters is popular with professionals in the UK and Europe, and pros in North America are keen to get in on a similar high-prize money scenario too. They are probably all taking notes from the Global Champions Tour of show jumping. The Wellington Showcase and similar bastardized events are examples on the NA circuit.

          None of which is useful or desirable from an amateur-keep-the-sport-affordable-and-accessible standpoint. I think it will result in further degradation of traditional endurance tests and increasing demand (or, vocal demand by pros) for what we used to call CICs and now call CCI-S formats. I don't think we have the fan base or sponsor base to really support this format of top-down eventing in NA, but could see the desire for it causing long-term damage to event sites/organizers/volunteers/sponsor relationships when the effort would be better spent trying to grow the sport from the bottom up.
          At some point, it isn't eventing any more. Or else the LL's aren't eventing any more.

          If there is a market for a horse sport that is based on eventing, but is not actual eventing, that's fine. If some eventing pros go chasing off after it, that's fine, too. It doesn't stop the pipeline to traditional eventing. It comes down to semantics and definitions.

          I feel more need for the LL's to separate and define themselves to remain true to the traditions. While allowing some flexibility, because without that, nothing survives.

          The more I watch horse trials in this area with riders and horses cantering briskly over natural country and fairly basic jumps with a minimum of fru-fru decorations, I see less and less similarity to the 5* sport I see on the livestream. And that widening gap seems to matter less and less, because LL eventing may not mean much to the highest levels. The pipeline doesn't lie through the average regional eventing org. It lies through the specialists and insiders that are close to USEA headquarters and the Olympic eventing group.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by Blugal View Post

            I think the ship has sailed on "scale the show biz back". The Event Rider Masters is popular with professionals in the UK and Europe, and pros in North America are keen to get in on a similar high-prize money scenario too. They are probably all taking notes from the Global Champions Tour of show jumping. The Wellington Showcase and similar bastardized events are examples on the NA circuit.

            None of which is useful or desirable from an amateur-keep-the-sport-affordable-and-accessible standpoint. I think it will result in further degradation of traditional endurance tests and increasing demand (or, vocal demand by pros) for what we used to call CICs and now call CCI-S formats. I don't think we have the fan base or sponsor base to really support this format of top-down eventing in NA, but could see the desire for it causing long-term damage to event sites/organizers/volunteers/sponsor relationships when the effort would be better spent trying to grow the sport from the bottom up.
            Its popular and it isn’t.....in Europe...many have different horses. They have the horses they are aiming for the 5*...Badminton, Burghley etc. and horses they aim for EMR and the derbies. They are often a different horse and different type of horse. Not that different from show jumpers with their GP horses and speed horses. They are derivatives of the same sport...and you do have a few horses who cross over and can do both. But yes, there are a lot of “pro” riders keen to have more prize money. But what many don’t realize is that you add more money...it does change things. It doesn’t “trickledown”....it seems to always go to the same people (often who already have money and owners).....and does more of widening the gap among professional riders than I would say it does to widening the gap between upper and lower levels of the sport.

            What I think is a bigger issue, is all the things being pushed through and just life changes that make it more and more expensive just to put on events. Cost of running events, available land etc....that is ultimately making it more and more expensive to run events and that DOES trickledown to the increasing the costs to compete in eventing. That is what is going to change the sport more than anything IMO.
            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #26
              More on the defunding debacle: Why ASC had to take reins and force equestrian into administration

              “With the recent resignation of Dr Ricky MacMillan as chair after six months, and the resignation of a further director after four months, eight directors have now resigned including three chairs in the last 16 months. There are currently only four directors with only one director having been elected by the members of EA. No other sport funded by the ASC has experienced this level of board turmoil.

              “The ASC has invested in the improvement of safety standards across the sport including a grant to employ a full time safety officer to implement the recommendations arising from the coronial inquests into the death of two riders. EA has not been forthcoming with reporting transparently the progress of the implementation process.”
              So it seems that the Australia Sport Commission put up funds to help implement safety recommendations following the 2 fatalities and then EA hasn’t come through with the implementation.

              IMO, EA deserves to be defunded over this.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
                And if eventing is ejected from the next Olympics, what becomes of eventing internationally? It would be a huge financial loss to the sport - but maybe a chance to reset priorities and purpose. Scale the show biz back, bring the horsemanship up. Something like that.

                I can envision a scenario in which losing the Olympics could be the best thing that ever happened to eventing. But not to a lot of the professionals who are invested in it.
                Eventing will do just fine without the Olympics. Probably better than ever cause without the Olympics everybody can focus on the big events and the international championships instead of everything and anything eventing being altered and changed just to fit into the Olympic program.
                I love horses, eventing and good dining!
                Blogging at www.eventingmania.com

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                  Some posters may be surprised to hear that some UL eventers want to do away with the FEI and start their own International Eventing Association. Tammie Smith talked about it in a podcast on Major League Eventing.

                  Losing the Olympics could be one of the best ways for eventing to cut ties with the FEI.

                  The event riders masters series is something that could replace the draw of the Olympics, more money to be won and an amazing show for spectators. Maybe a world Champs every two years instead of four. Lots of possibilities!
                  I agree letting go of FEI would benefit eventing but with all due respect no one cares about ERM but the competitors and the organisers. It is a great idea on paper that has been terribly executed and turned totally uninteresting. One of the main reasons for this are the choices of venues and riders pulling out the competition as soon as they are not top ranked heading out to cross country.
                  I love horses, eventing and good dining!
                  Blogging at www.eventingmania.com

                  Comment


                    #29
                    As a member of an EA affiliate state branch, I can whole heartedly say that EA has been a cluster f for a number of years. This is the shake up it needs to implement a whole new way of doing things in Australia.
                    The last few CEOs have somewhat naively gone in and attempted to put a band-aid on a broken leg . All well intentioned of course, but the whole system needs a major overhaul

                    Comment


                      #30
                      I'm also a member of an EA affiliated state branch, totally agree that EA has been a disaster for quite a while now. I am not holding out much hope for improvement. There is still no transparency or information about what is actually happening. I got emails asking to make different people my proxy, depending on their view of how EA should be fixed. Or not fixed. The meeting came and went . . .

                      I did see one suggestion that EA simply ceases to exist and that each discipline has its own national body. I am not sure how that would work with memberships, horse registration, insurance. What do other countries do?

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Originally posted by eventingmania View Post

                        I agree letting go of FEI would benefit eventing but with all due respect no one cares about ERM but the competitors and the organisers. It is a great idea on paper that has been terribly executed and turned totally uninteresting. One of the main reasons for this are the choices of venues and riders pulling out the competition as soon as they are not top ranked heading out to cross country.
                        Interesting, that is the opposite from what I have observed in that ERM is wildly popular and many in North America are dying for something similar here. I guess it depends who you speak to. I have never been to one but I would like to see what its all about.
                        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #32
                          Could any of our Australian friends comment on the failure to address safety/welfare concerns? What isn’t happening and why not?

                          The investigation into the deaths and subsequent recommendations seemed like a real step forward for eventing safety - so why did it stall out?

                          Also, the mass resignation and repeated upheaval administrative situation at EA sounds a bit like the perennial sh*tshow of the NF in Canada. One major difference is that EA was dealing with two high-profile fatalities. Although that reminds me that a Canadian eventer was killed in competition at a US venue earlier this year.

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                            Interesting, that is the opposite from what I have observed in that ERM is wildly popular and many in North America are dying for something similar here. I guess it depends who you speak to. I have never been to one but I would like to see what its all about.
                            It looks like any other HT at those levels. Just has xc last and they make the leaders sit in a chair to be replaced by the next leader.
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post

                              It looks like any other HT at those levels. Just has xc last and they make the leaders sit in a chair to be replaced by the next leader.
                              LOL

                              Isn't it a big show though? Like with vendors etc...a bigger event I guess than a HT? Or no?
                              Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                they make the leaders sit in a chair to be replaced by the next leader.
                                They should get more chairs and then have musical chairs as the grand finale.

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by JER View Post

                                  They should get more chairs and then have musical chairs as the grand finale.


                                  I think Ludwig Svennerstal would win that for some reason...he seems pretty fun if you have seen his instagram.
                                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post

                                    It looks like any other HT at those levels. Just has xc last and they make the leaders sit in a chair to be replaced by the next leader.
                                    It sits in the midst of an "ordinary" event and runs as a special class rather than being put on as an ERM only competition. IMO it lost a lot of support when it left Britain because because eventing is an even more minority sport outside the UK. But it has grown TV coverage to some degree as it offers a neat package to broadcasters.
                                    "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by ozjb View Post
                                      I'm also a member of an EA affiliated state branch, totally agree that EA has been a disaster for quite a while now.
                                      Interesting that Cricket Australia has a temporary CEO and Rugby Australia has just lost its CEO also. Something perhaps afoot in Australian sport that is wider than equestrianism.
                                      "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Willesdon View Post

                                        It sits in the midst of an "ordinary" event and runs as a special class rather than being put on as an ERM only competition. IMO it lost a lot of support when it left Britain because because eventing is an even more minority sport outside the UK. But it has grown TV coverage to some degree as it offers a neat package to broadcasters.
                                        That’s what I saw. I think it was actually the final in the series that year and they ran it at Blenheim. So yeah...nice trade fair etc but that was because it was Blenheim not because of the ERM.
                                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by ozjb View Post
                                          I did see one suggestion that EA simply ceases to exist and that each discipline has its own national body. I am not sure how that would work with memberships, horse registration, insurance. What do other countries do?
                                          In NZ our equivalent of EA covers Olympic disciplines, show hunter, endurance & CTR. Showing and height certificates (even for other purposes, like ESNZ registrations) are through the Royal Agricultural Society. Western seems to be completely separate. You can compete at low levels on an unregistered horse but beyond that you need to register the horse with ESNZ and for the discipline (although some disciplines have casual/flexi options at mid-levels). Of course it's all a lot smaller here and we don't have separate state bodies.

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