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CCI L Events

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  • CCI L Events

    Is there a time frame in which a horse cannot compete in a long format event? There’s one horse competing in the 4*L at Jockey Club that also finished the Fair Hill CCI4*L. Found that interesting they can compete at that level so close together?

  • #2
    No, there is no rule.

    Comment


    • #3
      It’s been 4 weeks... I don’t find that unreasonable in the slightest...
      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
        It’s been 4 weeks... I don’t find that unreasonable in the slightest...
        Not sure if your remark is sincere or not. Could you please confirm?
        Blugal

        You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blugal View Post

          Not sure if your remark is sincere or not. Could you please confirm?
          It is 100% sincere. A month is not an unreasonable amount of time. Europeans often turnaround even more quickly.
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • #6
            The optimum time for the 4-L at Fair Hill was 10 minutes 10 seconds. That is a significant task, in my opinion, and I do not think horses should be asked to run that long, nor to do the conditioning needed to stay fit, twice over in the space of a month.
            Blugal

            You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree if you were doing it every month of the year, that would be a big ask. But no one is competing like that. If your horse came out of the competition sound and fit, four weeks is a substantial amount of recovery time.

              The bottom line is you have to know your horse.

              Pull up some of the top Europeans in the FEI database and you will see it happens with a fair amount of regularity over there— not all the time, but often enough that it’s not eyebrow raising.

              I’m assuming the horse & rider in question are the experienced 5* mount being ridden by the assistant at one of the top barns in the country. That team has the knowledge to know what a horse can or can’t handle at that level.
              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

              Comment


              • #8
                Let's be transparent. It's Michael Pendleton riding 16 year old Steady Eddie, former mount of Boyd Martin.

                I don't know the rider or the program. Appears to me the reason for this is because they picked up 15 XC penalties at Fair Hill.

                I read an article on Mara DePuy, who evidently did a fair portion of the Fair Hil XC before falling off. She gave her horse 10 days off, decided to reroute, evidently did a week's flatwork, a XC school, and a gallop before coming. Perhaps that sort of schedule is fair enough for the horse.

                You are correct that others do this. Michael Jung has, once with anazing placings (can't remember but I think won or placed at Luhmuhlen).
                Blugal

                You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                Comment


                • #9
                  A relatively common European pattern is to run Badminton, then turn around and run the CCI4*-S at Tattersalls 3 weeks later, then compete at Luhmuhlen 2 weeks later.

                  That's two CCI5*-L and a CCI4*-S in the span of about 5 weeks. A lot of American riders have a hard time keeping their horses sound through a single 5* a year; I imagine we have very few horses or riders who could keep up with that type of European schedule. We just don't have the access to competition in North American to easily replicate something like that.

                  Another one of my favorites is how some Europeans will run a horse in early April, then turn around 2-3 weeks later and fly the horse across the ocean to Kentucky to kick our butts, then compete again at home within the month or so.
                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blugal View Post
                    Let's be transparent. It's Michael Pendleton riding 16 year old Steady Eddie, former mount of Boyd Martin.

                    I don't know the rider or the program. Appears to me the reason for this is because they picked up 15 XC penalties at Fair Hill.

                    I read an article on Mara DePuy, who evidently did a fair portion of the Fair Hil XC before falling off. She gave her horse 10 days off, decided to reroute, evidently did a week's flatwork, a XC school, and a gallop before coming. Perhaps that sort of schedule is fair enough for the horse.

                    You are correct that others do this. Michael Jung has, once with anazing placings (can't remember but I think won or placed at Luhmuhlen).
                    My understanding is that picking up either 11 or 15 penalties doesn't affect an NQR though.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                      A relatively common European pattern is to run Badminton, then turn around and run the CCI4*-S at Tattersalls 3 weeks later, then compete at Luhmuhlen 2 weeks later.

                      That's two CCI5*-L and a CCI4*-S in the span of about 5 weeks. A lot of American riders have a hard time keeping their horses sound through a single 5* a year; I imagine we have very few horses or riders who could keep up with that type of European schedule. We just don't have the access to competition in North American to easily replicate something like that.

                      Another one of my favorites is how some Europeans will run a horse in early April, then turn around 2-3 weeks later and fly the horse across the ocean to Kentucky to kick our butts, then compete again at home within the month or so.
                      could you provide some European examples of this?
                      Personally imo, 4 weeks interval between 4*L is not common or usual in Europe (unless pulled up on Xc and re-routed)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Highflyer View Post

                        My understanding is that picking up either 11 or 15 penalties doesn't affect an NQR though.
                        In order to do Kentucky in the spring, they need 2 qualifying runs at CCI 4 star longs. So Fair Hill counted with the 15, but they needed another.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah I was thinking he'd done the 4*L at Bromont but it was the 3*.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by headbrickwall View Post
                            https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...4E1EF1D23BBB71
                            could you provide some European examples of this?
                            Personally imo, 4 weeks interval between 4*L is not common or usual in Europe (unless pulled up on Xc and re-routed)
                            Tim Price is one who comes to mind. He tends to run his horses back quickly, especially if he's had a bad run.
                            https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...4E1EF1D23BBB71

                            I wasn't implying it was common as in "everyone is doing it." Rather, it is much more common there to have short intervals between competitions than in the US where we have less total competitions at the upper levels and more distance between them.
                            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Texarkana View Post

                              Tim Price is one who comes to mind. He tends to run his horses back quickly, especially if he's had a bad run.
                              https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...4E1EF1D23BBB71

                              I wasn't implying it was common as in "everyone is doing it." Rather, it is much more common there to have short intervals between competitions than in the US where we have less total competitions at the upper levels and more distance between them.
                              He was eliminated at Badminton. How early in course was he eliminated? If it was towards the beginning then of course it’s reasonable to reroute to Tatts then luhmuhlen. Your comment above suggests that riders are completing courses like badminton then doing other horse trials right off the bat and that is absolutely not true.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Simba27 View Post

                                He was eliminated at Badminton. How early in course was he eliminated? If it was towards the beginning then of course it’s reasonable to reroute to Tatts then luhmuhlen. Your comment above suggests that riders are completing courses like badminton then doing other horse trials right off the bat and that is absolutely not true.
                                This year in 2019, he pulled up Bango at The Lake, which was maybe fences 23-25 or so. The horse was getting very strong & had a stop at The Hollow (approx fence 8?ish) & went slow as a schooling round till The Lake, which was near the stabling, then pulled up & hacked back to the stabling. The FEI record linked above was a different horse (Wesko) & was Badminton/Tattersalls/Luhmuhlen 2014. Not sure where he got eliminated in 2014 on Wesko.
                                Last edited by vagabondrider; Nov. 16, 2019, 10:00 PM. Reason: Clarifying year

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I will admit I have not paid enough attention to completion rates at Badminton, which is a big faux pas on my part. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

                                  But I stand by my statement that it is more common in European than it is in the United States to compete at the advanced level on four weeks or less between events.

                                  Louise Harwood has done Badminton/Luhmuhlen back to back with several horses. Several others, will go to Badminton then continue competing every month through the summer. Like this guy:
                                  https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...120FD73592C96B

                                  Andrew Hoy turns his around fast as well. Like Rutherglen, who ran 2 "old" CIC3* (including the Nations Cup at Aachen) and an old 4* between 6/6/14 and 7/15/14:
                                  https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...27CCF5E39DE2EC

                                  In 2016, Joseph Murphy did the old-3* Nations Cup in late April, ran Badminton the first weekend in May, then ran Luhmuhlen early June.
                                  https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...9C8BD81F6157A5

                                  Or even the brilliant Ingrid Klimke, who ran Sap Hale Bob Old pretty darn regularly, going up and down between levels leading up to now-5* or championship events.
                                  https://data.fei.org/Horse/Performan...E8007FF07E350C
                                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Boyd confirms what I wanted to say, but was biting my tongue so as not to spread hearsay— they are trying to get Mike Pen qualified for Kentucky while he has this opportunity to lease Steady Eddie:

                                    https://www.facebook.com/15144258490...1?vh=e&sfns=mo
                                    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      So we have 2 euro riders (plus a handful more I’d suspect) who have completed a long format and then done another within 6 weeks over the last 5 years or so - common then

                                      The original post was about long format completions - not CICs. If the goalposts are changing then yes most definitely short format advanced, monthly, is common in Europe.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Having spent time overseas, I would politely disagree about Europeans running back to back long formats in this quick of turnaround unless there was not a completion. While they may compete at advanced level events back to back to back, I think it’s important to factor in they have a proper off season for their horses, where we have events in this country all year long at this point.

                                        I don’t doubt Boyd and team know how the horse can handle it, I was curious if the FEI had a timeframe in place. If not, i believe they should.

                                        Comment

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