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EC 2020 Rule Changes - Level creep?

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  • EC 2020 Rule Changes - Level creep?

    EC released their copy of the proposed rule changes today. https://www.equestrian.ca/cdn/storag...Lh4jEmuGsw.pdf

    For eventing, I see they have added the details for the EV 105 class, and also made some changes to the XC description. Before getting into that, note the change in the showjumping purpose - what used to be

    This test is similar to an ordinary show jumping competition, but without any attempt to find a ‘winner’ of this test on its own. Its main objective is to prove that, after a test of cross-country, the Horses and competitor have retained the suppleness, energy and obedience necessary for them to continue, and that they are well trained in the specialist discipline of show jumping.
    is now

    This test is similar to an ordinary show jumping competition, but without any attempt to find a ‘winner’ of this test on its own. Its main objective is to prove that, the Horses and competitor, are well trained in the specialist discipline of show jumping
    This makes me SO SAD. What a loss to the true test and purpose of eventing. Yes most events run Dressage, SJ, XC, however some in Quebec still run tradiltionally, and the fact they removed that wording from the rule book shows they don't care to ever have it go back to the standard format. Sad.

    So the XC noteable changes to fences: for Pre-Training (Novice), they now allow corners;

    Corner fences are permitted with the following specifications: o minimum face of 12’ o maximum angle of 20 degrees o to be boarded in o top spread not to exceed 3’ 3” at widest point
    and for Training, an option is no longer required.

    A Training division corner does not require an alternative but if one is offered it should have the same dimensions as a corner for the PreTraining Division.
    Is this level creep or no bigge? Thoughts on this. Corners at Novice/PT seem nuts to me, but it seems the courses are changing quiote rapidly these days.
    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

  • #2
    I don’t know the equivalent UK standard but you routinely get corners at 90cm in UK, sometimes get diddy ones at 80cm. 100cm are not unheard of to have a straightforward second element with a corner. At 110cm this year I have seen max height/dimension table on a curving 5 strides to a corner - and two corners on a curving 4 strides.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by headbrickwall View Post
      I don’t know the equivalent UK standard but you routinely get corners at 90cm in UK, sometimes get diddy ones at 80cm. 100cm are not unheard of to have a straightforward second element with a corner. At 110cm this year I have seen max height/dimension table on a curving 5 strides to a corner - and two corners on a curving 4 strides.
      Thank you for the input. Sounds like the corners are already introduced in the UK then at that level. Interesting!
      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

      Comment


      • #4
        The change in the "objective" for show jumping is simply catching up with the same change, made several years ago, by FEI and USEF.
        Janet

        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2017.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Janet View Post
          The change in the "objective" for show jumping is simply catching up with the same change, made several years ago, by FEI and USEF.
          Any idea why the change?
          Boss Mare Eventing Blog

          Comment


          • #6
            Richard Jeffries, I think. It has to do with the end of the old "Long Format", so horses are not supposed to be as tired on SJ day.
            Janet

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2017.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes, it's level creep. I actually have no problem with the Pre-training corners as set out, since they are just a differently-shaped oxer with a 12-foot face.

              The issue I have is that Training corners have been, and will continue to be, Prelim corners in design but Training level in height. I complained about one in 2014, and was told "too bad" even though the XC guidelines from the USEA demanded a minimum width of jumpable face of 10 feet (I believe the Training one we had to jump had a 5 foot face, and had decorations on the top at the wide spot so it was truly a Prelim question).

              Why EC has to reinvent the wheel on this stuff just boggles the mind. USEA is better funded and has a 26-page XC design guideline.
              Blugal

              You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

              Comment


              • #8
                On another front, I am happy to see an update in the requirements for frangibles, they now include Training level fences. This was another change I made noise about some years ago, and was told that at Prelim and below, we shouldn't have to do this and that it would cost too much.
                Blugal

                You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Also interesting they were looking to increase the heights in showjumping but looks as though they changed their mind. Our showjumping already allows for some fences to be 3 inches about the required height, so for PT/Novice they can be up to 3'2 or Training up to 3'5.
                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by headbrickwall View Post
                    I don’t know the equivalent UK standard but you routinely get corners at 90cm in UK, sometimes get diddy ones at 80cm. 100cm are not unheard of to have a straightforward second element with a corner. At 110cm this year I have seen max height/dimension table on a curving 5 strides to a corner - and two corners on a curving 4 strides.
                    I am of the strong opinion that UK riders are just far more badass in general, but about 1000% more hardcore in eventing; if I see you at a local competition wearing a pompom on your helmet, I am going to assume you are A) British and B) very hardcore.

                    Previous me would have immediately responded with "please no corners at PT" based on what I've seen on course walks, but I now acknowledge that adding them would make the move up a lot smoother. I'm about to go Training for the first time and there's nothing comparable currently at PT that I can think of. However, I compete for the enjoyment and will always prefer "softer" courses so my input may not align with those more competitive riders.
                    thebaybondgirl.wordpress.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                      Thank you for the input. Sounds like the corners are already introduced in the UK then at that level. Interesting!
                      You don't see them often but there are corners at one event for area vii at novice and possibly beginner novice (note I did not see that course but a good friend rode it with her baby horse). The corner I rode at novice was well below max height, maybe a 20 degree angle, no wider than a normal novice table on the wide side and set up in a way to be extremely inviting.

                      It isn't typical but that venue is trying to get it's legs and offer a wide variety of fences.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've seen "corners" at multiple Novices in this area. I actually like them-- on a green horse you can just jump them in the middle like a biggish table, and on a more experienced horse you can practice jumping at an appropriate angle.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We quite routinely see Novice corners as well in Area VIII but they are very inviting and often primarily identified as corners only by the decorations and name on the map. The ones I’ve seen have played well, as mentioned before, to either be jumped as a normal table for a horse that is new or at level or at angle as a Training prep for a horse with aspirations to move up in the near future. The only challenging corner I’ve seen at Novice was coming out of the water at the last Richland and those were always known as tough courses for the level.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Blugal View Post
                            On another front, I am happy to see an update in the requirements for frangibles, they now include Training level fences. This was another change I made noise about some years ago, and was told that at Prelim and below, we shouldn't have to do this and that it would cost too much.
                            I'm interested to see if this proposed change passes, and when it will take effect (ie. for the upcoming season?). One of our hosts in Ontario added MIM clips to a Prelim fence as required, and cost was I think $750+ for that one fence.

                            I saw the USEF has a grant program in place to assist with paying for the frangible technology costs. I wonder if EC will also implement something similar to assist our host venues if they approve this rule?
                            I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Great feedback from everyone.

                              I never saw corners at that level when I evented in the UK, but it was about 14 years ago now! lol
                              Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by SolarFlare View Post

                                I'm interested to see if this proposed change passes, and when it will take effect (ie. for the upcoming season?). One of our hosts in Ontario added MIM clips to a Prelim fence as required, and cost was I think $750+ for that one fence.

                                I saw the USEF has a grant program in place to assist with paying for the frangible technology costs. I wonder if EC will also implement something similar to assist our host venues if they approve this rule?
                                There already is a program in place, the Eventing Safety Initiatives Grant Program. It's been in place a number of years but not everyone knows about it

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Level creep has been so rapid in the last 10 years. I regularly warn people that have taken some time off of showing that they need to be prepared for much harder courses at every level. Even so, they always come back from the show saying “I can’t believe that was on the Novice course!” Or something to that effect

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    It's something I hear at every event or afterward

                                    When I was 15-23 I evented Training and Prelim. In training, I remember a drop into water was like, at the scarier events. Now, we have drops in, then jumps out, or jumps right after the water, or jumps in the water, all combined. A lot of places have 2 waters. Everywhere has a corner. Combinations galore. Skinies, turning questions, etc. I'm not complaining, just noting the difficulty has really increased over the years. It would certainly be a shock if you have taken time off eventing to now go out at the lower levels and see ditches, trakehners, and banks out of water at even the lowest levels.
                                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Livie View Post

                                      There already is a program in place, the Eventing Safety Initiatives Grant Program. It's been in place a number of years but not everyone knows about it
                                      Thank you! I'll pass that on - I hadn't had a chance to look into it but this is very helpful.
                                      I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        In area vi, There are corners on novice courses. Twin Rivers in Paso Robles has had a novice corner for quite a while. The “corner” is relatively small though and I feel it’s more of an “omg there’s a corner at novice” designed to scare riders (it scared me the first time LOL). My trainer told me the corner at twin isn’t a “true” corner - as in the widest part of the corner isn’t wider than max width for novice. So technically it’s not a “true” forever, he said. Woodside actually just added a novice corner at their last event. I missed it but am schooling xc there this weekend so I’m curious to see how it rides. In each case the corner was put as part of a combination. At Twin they had a ditch to the corner and at Woodside it’s a cabin to the corner - interestingly enough both events have them as fence 4a/b in the course, at least this year.

                                        When I first heard of a corner at novice I was like oh great, but now I just kind of expect it. My horse tends to be tense in the dressage so i don’t mind if XC is a bit trickier
                                        Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

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