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Burghley

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  • Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post

    Someone who's ready to step into that level then changes their mind after today v someone doing X rails saying that after this course makes a big difference.
    Back off. Seriously.

    Jealoushe is a very competent rider and trainer who turns OTTBs into forward and confident jumpers.

    Any goals she has in this sport are, for her, realistic goals.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JER View Post

      Back off. Seriously.

      Jealoushe is a very competent rider and trainer who turns OTTBs into forward and confident jumpers.

      Any goals she has in this sport are, for her, realistic goals.
      Back off why? LOL. I'm not sure why my question is so improper. I'm a cross rails jumper. Pretty sure I've said as such before. My saying I changed my mind about competing at that level after watching today has no weight to people making decisions. Others at higher levels making a decision change might. Losing potential entries could make organizers make different course decisions .
      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • I don't think Burghley will be holding their breath.
        ... _. ._ .._. .._

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        • Has anyone found a replay from the live stream today? I only saw the first half before my farrier came out

          Comment


          • JER Thanks

            Burghley doesn’t give a sh*t about me, that’s true and I am not bothered by that, but I’m a dedicated eventer so I can only imagine what the outsiders of our sport think after watching that.

            Its a bad look, and it’s unfair to the horses to punish them fence after fence.
            Boss Mare Eventing Blog

            Comment


            • Not to change the subject, but I missed Pippa's ride, Will the rides be available to watch again?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by luckycricket123 View Post
                Has anyone found a replay from the live stream today? I only saw the first half before my farrier came out
                I think they are usually posed tonight or tomorrow on their website or YouTube.
                Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                Comment


                • You can see replays in several parts at the livestream link from before. Just cklick to the main Burghley channel.
                  Blugal

                  You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

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                  • Originally posted by Rnichols View Post
                    Forgive my ignorance, but can someone please explain to me why the frangible pins only gave way ONCE at that one stride gate thing despite being hit HARD multiple times? I believe that question had at least 2, if not 3 falls and at least one was a rotational.
                    I think the gates were mim pins, as opposed to frangible pins. Not quite sure of the difference, (I am quite sure I will be corrected if this is wrong) I think the mim pins have to have a head-on crash, where the frangible collapse under downward pressure. Only one person hit the gate head-on, everyone else hit it at an angle. I think that is right.
                    Another killer of threads

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rnichols View Post
                      Forgive my ignorance, but can someone please explain to me why the frangible pins only gave way ONCE at that one stride gate thing despite being hit HARD multiple times? I believe that question had at least 2, if not 3 falls and at least one was a rotational.
                      I can explain this. I'm going to try and sit down and write a better explanation with diagrams for distribution later this week but for now, here's the cliff notes:

                      To begin the explanation, I have to start with the idea that force has two components: magnitude (how strong the force is) and direction (the angle the magnitude is aimed, in three dimensions). In order to simplify forces, you break the magnitude into three 'unit' directions: one each in X (along the plane of the fence), Y (perpendicular to plane of fence), and Z (towards the ground) directions. MIM clips activate based only on forces in the Y direction, frangible only in the Z direction.

                      So when a horse hits a gate like that, it's not just one force, but a combination of the magnitude of the X and Y forces. There's no real Z force on a gate unless the horse lands directly on it, which is why the gates aren't frangible pinned.

                      Now, the more you jump on an angle, the more you are directing the the magnitude of the force towards the X direction and away from the Y. At a 45 degree angle, the magnitude is split evenly between the X and Y directions. So if the MIM clip is designed to break with 100 lb of pressure, and the horse jumps the gate straight on and hits with 150 lb of pressure, the MIM will break but if the horse jumps at a 45 degree angle and hits with 150 lb, the MIM clip will only experience 75 lb in the direction required to break the clip and will not break. This is not a flaw in the clip....this is a flaw in the implementation of the clips. User error, as we say.

                      So now, to break the clip on an angle, the horse would need to hit the gate with double the force required to break the pin in normal operation. And to make things worse, it seemed to me that these gates were well beyond a 45 angle which means the Y magnitude would have been significantly less than even half of the total magnitude. Which is why only Carryon Bobby Boy broke the clip; he basically chested the gate rather than just hit it with his legs.

                      Comment


                      • Burghley is, and always has been a very testing event. On this occasion,some horses and/or riders were not ready for the experience. For the most part this was due to the lack of entries from those involved in the Euro Champs.Some made silly errors. THAT IS ALL. So quit your bleating.
                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                          Burghley is, and always has been a very testing event. On this occasion,some horses and/or riders were not ready for the experience. For the most part this was due to the lack of entries from those involved in the Euro Champs.Some made silly errors. THAT IS ALL. So quit your bleating.
                          Many of those that had falls were not inexperienced combos.

                          Any idea when the replay will be up?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                            JER Thanks

                            Burghley doesn’t give a sh*t about me, that’s true and I am not bothered by that, but I’m a dedicated eventer so I can only imagine what the outsiders of our sport think after watching that.

                            Its a bad look, and it’s unfair to the horses to punish them fence after fence.
                            Yes. It's the sort of thing that could make one wonder if they should support eventing. I know plenty of people in the horse world who rail against racing, saying it is (or fosters) horse cruelty. Eventers should not want that to happen with eventing.

                            With this level of carnage, will the course designer make any kind of statement or apology about the course? Will there be any kind of review as to why so many falls happened?

                            Comment


                            • Divine Comedy thanks for the great explanation! I guess now I don’t understand why you would use the MIM clips in the first place. It seems like the most likely cause for a rotational would be when the horse hits the fence on the y axis (chests it or hangs a leg). I can’t imagine a scenario where the z access would come into play, without the y axis also being involved.

                              Oh well, I’m sure someone much smarter than I chose which clips to put where!
                              Another Adult Amature and her OTTB: https://eventingottb.wordpress.com

                              Repurposed Racehorses
                              https://repurposedracehorses.weebly.com/

                              Comment


                              • For those who watched the full day, take a moment and consider what falls we would have seen had we not had the collapsing fences.

                                Today would have been far, far worse. I don't even have time to review and count ALL of the potentially bad falls, with horse legs caught in the fence, that were saved by the forgiveness of the fences. And the actual falls that were softened for the same reason.

                                Because had those logs not given way when they did ... the end of this day might have seen a tragedy, and maybe more than one. That's not what I expect to see when I pull up a 5* live feed.

                                Regardless of the explanations / excuses for why there were so many falls, so many broken fences, none of those reasons excuse what I saw out there today. Whatever is wrong has to be fixed. This can't be what happens at a 5*.

                                Some of the riding and near-misses had given reason enough for a rider to be pulled off course *before* they got into serious fall trouble. Why weren't they? Why were they qualified at all? That needs work.

                                It seems that once a rider is out of the start box, no one is going to stop them for any reason. This "ride or die" attitude by some of the old school, get out there and don't stop for anything, drive the horse into the ground if you have to, has to removed from eventing thought processes and policies.I saw it out there in abundance today. We had a very ugly round of that attitude last year after one of the more unpleasant eventing incidents, and the names who spouted off publicly supporting a negative horse welfare situation are hard to forget.

                                As for the jumps, an example is that, in past years, the Maltings open oxer was scary and one to get in the rearview even when it was just the one. A lot of top event horses have barely had the scope to get over it. So what was the point of adding second one on a left turn directly after the first one? It's an open jumper jump, not a cross-country jump. What was expected from that, exactly, other than to trap some horses and riders?

                                There has to be a more effective set of brakes on course design oversteps. It's unfortunate that is necessary, but clearly it is.

                                Of course the collapsing fences have to be more effective at saving horses and riders. Where the collapse didn't happen, there were some awful falls that could have ended more badly than they did. But in addition to improving that technology, the need shouldn't be nearly as high as it was today. And it isn't just the collapsing fences that are adding to course difficulty, the course designer may be getting a break from the inflatable vests as well (Savannah Fulton).

                                Basically - If today is what eventing presents and continues to present, I will feel zero sympathy when the forces that we don't control step in and do what eventing didn't do, to protect both the horses and the riders who are making mistakes.

                                I support everything about the basic philosophy of eventing. I do not support what I saw on Burghley XC today. That is not what eventing is supposed to be, and not what I want to see or to follow.

                                Comment


                                • I'm catching up on the livestream now.

                                  I agree that some of the course's perceived difficulty, compared to the Burghleys I've seen in the past is due to the fact that there were far more younger and less experienced horse-rider combinations than usual. I also felt that some of the most difficult and technical questions came up very soon in the course, resulting in horses and riders either getting tripped up before they were really in harmony and had a sense of the flow of the course, or getting weary early on, and then making poor decisions or simply running out of gas later. Even taking more of the long options--which was clearly the right move for many, especially those on less experienced or more impressed horses--can result in greater tiredness over a tough course and errors that the pairs might not normally make.
                                  Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                    A lot of those riders would not have been there, but for the European Championships. You are confusing the quality of the entries with the standard of the test. No Germans, French, Belgians, Irish, Dutch etc, etc..

                                    True. But. If they are not ready for this course, if it is dangerous to horse and rider for them to be out there ... then why are they?

                                    If it's qualifications, then that has to be looked at more closely. Because some of them were taking the 'easy' routes and finding them not so easy, so it was not just down to that.

                                    If it's just to fill up the entries, that has to be reconsidered as well. If enough qualified riders just aren't available for the next 5*, some other solution has to be considered.

                                    If they should be able to manage the course but then are making hash out of it once they are out there, and won't retire on their own, there needs to be more clear standards for when riders are pulled off. And they must be pulled off. There seems to be a deep reluctance to do that, no matter how dangerous the riding.
                                    Last edited by OverandOnward; Sep. 7, 2019, 05:56 PM. Reason: left out a word

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Impractical Horsewoman View Post
                                      I'm catching up on the livestream now.

                                      I agree that some of the course's perceived difficulty, compared to the Burghleys I've seen in the past is due to the fact that there were far more younger and less experienced horse-rider combinations than usual. I also felt that some of the most difficult and technical questions came up very soon in the course, resulting in horses and riders either getting tripped up before they were really in harmony and had a sense of the flow of the course, or getting weary early on, and then making poor decisions or simply running out of gas later. Even taking more of the long options--which was clearly the right move for many, especially those on less experienced or more impressed horses--can result in greater tiredness over a tough course and errors that the pairs might not normally make.
                                      Where are you watching it? I can't find the replay of cc, just dressage

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Divine Comedy View Post

                                        I can explain this. I'm going to try and sit down and write a better explanation with diagrams for distribution later this week but for now, here's the cliff notes:

                                        .................[explanation of why they didn't work on some of the jumps]..............
                                        Thanks very much for taking the time to explain this!

                                        Comment


                                        • kmwines I'm watching it on my desktop, so it might be easier to see the links:

                                          https://livestream.com/burghley/events/8799670

                                          There are thumbnails to the right that have the different sections of cross-country.
                                          Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

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