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Eliminations

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  • Eliminations

    If you get eliminated from lower level eventing can you still continue for experience or change to HC?

  • #2
    This will be covered in the rule book. A quick search turned up this page from May, which I assume is still current: https://useventing.com/news-media/ne...o-horse-trials

    You have to get permission to continue.

    In my experience from volunteering, if the schedule is not packed solid / the officials are not too busy to deal with you, and if it was something silly like forgetting the course in stadium, you may be allowed to go ahead and jump cross country. If there is any safety concern, (out of control, multiple refusals,) you probably will not be allowed.
    --
    Wendy
    ... and Patrick

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    • #3
      What I have seen fence judging is that if you are eliminated in SJ before XC, you can ride XC “with permission”. Under the standard set up that means you can ride XC until your first refusal (actually any penalty).

      If you are eliminated on XC, generally the TD will not give permission for you to continue riding due to the risk that the reason you were eliminated is that you or your horse can not safely complete XC. Plus it would be very confusing for all the people involved in making XC run to add a horse back in in the middle of XC.

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      • #4
        I saw someone once get eliminated in dressage due to some cows charging across the field behind the judge. They didn't even make it down the centerline. The management was nice enough to still let them do their jumping phases anyways.

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        • #5
          Yes to the above. In Area 2, the majority of TDs (or SJ judges/CDs - who is sometimes also the TD) will allow riders to go x-country after a TE in SJ. If you are E’d due to refusals, it’s less likely that you will be allowed to continue to x-country - for obvious reasons. I saw it allowed once at the late, great Rubicon - after much discussion by the judge and the POGJ. It might have been a pro on a greenie at BN, so was allowed “for schooling purposes.”

          Years ago a friend was TE’d after her SJ round for using a running without reins stops (and she obviously never did that again!) but was allowed to go c-country since it wasn’t “dangerous.”

          The “one stop on cross country and you’re out” rule always applies...

          At recognized HTs you will NEVER be allowed to continue after being E’d for either stops or going off course; as a jump judge I have had to stop riders md-course at my fence - many of whom are initially confused until I break the bad news. If a rider is at the very end of the course after a TE they will sometimes let them finish if they are not dangerous (also there needs to be confirmation of the TE via radio, which might take 30 seconds or so.)

          At Starter Trials, they will occasionally allow horses at the Baby Levels to continue after an E for the schooling experience, but that varies from venue to venue.
          "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

          "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

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          • #6
            Basically what everyone said.
            I have been allowed to continue when my green horse came upon a muddy spot in the sj ring and just stopped and I popped off. Since it had nothing to do with the actual jumps, I was allowed to go xc.
            My friend forgot to remove her bell boots for dressage a couple weeks ago. Judge didn't notice until the end of the test. She got a TE, but was allowed to jump.

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            • #7
              You HAVE TO ask for permission. But it will often be granted.
              Janet

              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now). Spy is gone. April 15, 1982 to Jan 10, 2019.

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              • #8
                Just to cover the question - HC is only allowed as an official designation, I think, in the case of a special permission for a rider/horse to go in a division in which they probably don't belong. If, for example, an entry in the Rider division has an ammy rider get sick at the last minute, but the rider's trainer can ride instead, but for some reason the entry can't switch divisions, then the trainer-horse combo will ride as HC. They will be scored and the scores will be published, but the HC will be designated instead of the placing (so no ribbons). Reasons the ride times can't be moved to another division in which the trainer is eligible could be that the other division has already begun, or else that ride times are tight and the GJ/TD/whoever doesn't think they can work in another entry.

                On the other hand, if a rider is TE'd but allowed to finish their jumping phases, that isn't an HC. As I understand it. They are just a sort of ghostly figure whose only scoring result is an E.

                I have been told that the USEA does not want even a TE to continue the jumping phases at a recognized event. If you're E, you're out of the jumping, regardless. I don't know if that is a formal written policy or just a strong directive to TD's, but that's what I've heard from authoritative sources.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post

                  I have been told that the USEA does not want even a TE to continue the jumping phases at a recognized event. If you're E, you're out of the jumping, regardless. I don't know if that is a formal written policy or just a strong directive to TD's, but that's what I've heard from authoritative sources.

                  hmm that’s interesting.....I haven’t experienced that. In my area it seems the ones who are allowed to continue their weekend are the competitors who get a TE. I got a TE last year at my first novice (who needs to jump fence 6 anyway, come on 🙄😂) in stadium and they allowed me to do cross country the next day. The only rule was that if I had one stop that was it, I would have to call it a day. Another friend of mine got TEd at Rebecca just this past weekend and they let her show jump the next day. So it’s interesting that there is a strong preference to not have a person with a TE continue their weekend. I could see not allowing a competitor to continue on an E or RF, but a TE is ususally just a dumb silly mistake

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                  • #10
                    I recently missed jump #4 on XC (I didn't even realize it because I came out of the woods in the wrong spot, so #4 was already behind my line of sight). No one stopped me or notified me until I came through the finish flags and the TD informed me. I asked whether I could still go to SJ and he said "absolutely"! I ended up with a TE but still ran all three phases.

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                    • #11
                      Agree with the above two posters; in Area 2, I have never seen someone with a TE (usually for going off course) NOT allowed to continue with the “one stop rule.”

                      The TD and Brian O’Connor - who announces many of our area HTS - always cover this in the JJ orientation, and I have jump judged numerous times at pretty much all the area venues. None of the officials I’ve worked with have ever said differently...

                      It happened to me recently and Kathy White (SJ CD and TD) told me I could go on to x-country with the one stop rule.

                      Now if the rider is dangerous? Whole different story.
                      "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                      "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rnichols View Post


                        hmm that’s interesting.....I haven’t experienced that. In my area it seems the ones who are allowed to continue their weekend are the competitors who get a TE. I got a TE last year at my first novice (who needs to jump fence 6 anyway, come on 🙄😂) in stadium and they allowed me to do cross country the next day. The only rule was that if I had one stop that was it, I would have to call it a day. Another friend of mine got TEd at Rebecca just this past weekend and they let her show jump the next day. So it’s interesting that there is a strong preference to not have a person with a TE continue their weekend. I could see not allowing a competitor to continue on an E or RF, but a TE is ususally just a dumb silly mistake
                        Around here, in my experience, if it is an unrecognized the rider will be allowed to continue. If it is recognized, they will not. It's really too bad because I think the chance to complete the jumping phases is important for someone who put in the preparation, time and money to be there ... but that's what's been passed along, and said to be coming from the USEA. Who knows, maybe some TD's are more cautious than others.

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