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Ashley Stout , 13 and her horse, killed in Rotational Fall (Named to YR Training team)

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    #21
    I don't want to derail a thread intended to mourn a shining young light in the sport. I have some questions about this type of fall, but I will switch back over to Jealoushe's thread.

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      #22
      Guys, this was an ACCIDENT. It can happen to any one of you at any time you are sitting on a horse. If you don't understand the risks, why are you doing it ?
      ... _. ._ .._. .._

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        #23
        This is horrific, in my mind particularly because the horse was solid and young, not old or of questionable soundness, and because it sounds like the jump was not ridiculously large. I’ve always thought of my plebeian lower level being fairly safe. Also horrific because the rider was so young.

        I’m honestly interested in seeing the jump and approach. I don’t think of a fence under 3’ being capable of causing a rotational fall, but obviously it is.

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          #24
          This is just devastating. I am heartbroken for her family and friends.

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            #25
            I hope it doesn't get heated, Jealoushe , and I say that knowing we disagree on what to call it.

            A little girl and her horse are dead. Let's all just mourn that for a bit. We can argue the descriptive language at our leisure.

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              #26
              Originally posted by TMares View Post
              I hope it doesn't get heated, Jealoushe , and I say that knowing we disagree on what to call it.

              A little girl and her horse are dead. Let's all just mourn that for a bit. We can argue the descriptive language at our leisure.
              NO!

              We have been discussing/arguing the terms for over a DECADE!! There are NO "freak accidents." And this comes from a person who spends his life investigating root cause failure of "freak" occurrences. Just because something happens 1 in 1,000,000,000 times doesn't NOT mean it was a freak accident. There was a ROOT cause that can be discovered. I know this because I have done it.

              This was a horrible tragedy that was likely unavoidable (as ksbadger points out). Thus, the term "freak" no longer applies. The risks become mitigated through engineering design and the use of various personal protective equipment.

              The failure here starts at the absolute TOP. The FEI and USEF. They should have concerted efforts to measure, classify, and characterize ALL falls on XC, and in particular fatal and serious injury falls.

              Sadly, this death will also go towards the recent study that showed severe/fatal injuries are more associated with wearing air vests (if the rider was wearing one as shown in all pictures I have seen).

              Comment


                #27
                My condolences to her family and her connections.

                My question would be, was this a portable jump, was it secured, and did it roll? If the jump rotated, then there is something to be done to prevent a recurrence.

                Comment


                  #28
                  This is so sad. I would also like to have known if she was wearing her vest(s), Tipperary or airvest etc. a lot of folks and many out east go out schooling xc without the safety gear they compete in especially when the schooling is on property. I would just like to see it in the perspective of all the safety tools we have already. Although, it doesn’t really matter in the end does it....

                  Comment


                    #29
                    I’m just so terribly sad to hear this... condolences to all who knew her and her horse.

                    I also agree that while this is a horrible accident, this is not “freak” nor even that unusual. When I evented, I had two similar falls. There is always a root cause; or a series of occurrences that lead up to it. I was just lucky.
                    http://www.windsweptfarmllc.com

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                      Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by startbox View Post
                      This is so sad. I would also like to have known if she was wearing her vest(s), Tipperary or airvest etc. a lot of folks and many out east go out schooling xc without the safety gear they compete in especially when the schooling is on property. I would just like to see it in the perspective of all the safety tools we have already. Although, it doesn’t really matter in the end does it....
                      It does though, because we can learn from it and it is a good and important question. I also would like to know if she was wearing an air vest.

                      I believe it was a training level fence, not a fence the size of a curb as someone mentioned on Facebook, that was just an example someone used to say how easy the horse should have cleared it. There are many factors that are in play here. The rider was only 13 and no matter how good a rider, one year at the level at age 13 does not exactly line up with someone being very experienced, as talented as she may be.

                      We can grieve and discuss the safety of our sport, theydo not have to be kept seperate imo.

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                        Original Poster

                        #31
                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                        Guys, this was an ACCIDENT. It can happen to any one of you at any time you are sitting on a horse. If you don't understand the risks, why are you doing it ?
                        who and what is this comment directed at?

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by startbox View Post
                          This is so sad. I would also like to have known if she was wearing her vest(s), Tipperary or airvest etc. a lot of folks and many out east go out schooling xc without the safety gear they compete in especially when the schooling is on property. I would just like to see it in the perspective of all the safety tools we have already. Although, it doesn’t really matter in the end does it....
                          Of course it matters!!!! It goes to preventing or mitigating the next accident. It would be an absolute travesty to have another young rider killed because we just said, "it doesn't matter" this time.

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Freak accident would be a tree limb falling on the horse or a sinkhole opening under its feet. This is a measurable and finite risk of the sport that happened. Very sad.

                            No vest is going to save your life if a 1200 pound horse falls on top of you accelerating through a rotational fall.
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                              Freak accident would be a tree limb falling on the horse or a sinkhole opening under its feet. This is a measurable and finite risk of the sport that happened. Very sad.

                              No vest is going to save your life if a 1200 pound horse falls on top of you accelerating through a rotational fall.
                              Um, delta,....https://www.paulickreport.com/horse-...e-backstretch/

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Will this be counted statistically as an Eventing accident if she was schooling the horse and not entered and competing?
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Rotational falls at Training level and below, as far as I am aware, are extremely uncommon. Without knowing more about the type of obstacle or the circumstances, I think it's hard to know if it was a freak accident or something we can learn from as a sport. I am not sure it falls into the same category as the falls we've seen at Prelim and up that are much too common.

                                  When I was a kid, I saw a rotational fall in a hunter class with a very young rider at the 2'9" level - the horse was a total runaway that day and got himself tangled in a small portable wall with a rail over it. Fortunately, neither were hurt other than a nasty shakeup.

                                  What a tragedy for this capable lovely young rider and her lovely horse. I hope there will be as much investigation as possible so that we can learn whatever can be learned.
                                  If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    The article did say she was wearing her safety equipment. But we all should know by now that if everything goes just wrong, none of that equipment can save you if the horse falls on your torso. No vest currently available has any crush resistance.
                                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Gut-wrenching. My condolences to her loved ones.
                                      Blugal

                                      You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                                      Comment

                                        Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                                        Rotational falls at Training level and below, as far as I am aware, are extremely uncommon. Without knowing more about the type of obstacle or the circumstances, I think it's hard to know if it was a freak accident or something we can learn from as a sport. I am not sure it falls into the same category as the falls we've seen at Prelim and up that are much too common.
                                        .
                                        I think this is a myth though, I think fatalaties at the level are uncommon for sure. But 2 years ago a horse died at an event going Pre Training (Novice) in Ontario, and I also was held on course the same year for a rotational fall at Training level, rider sent to hospital. So I think they happen, and often, but the speed is slower and perhaps that is why the injuries are less significant than death.

                                        Comment

                                          Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          A bit more about her on her GoFund Me.

                                          https://www.gofundme.com/ashley-stout-nyac

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