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PanAms

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  • #21
    Meh I think this is a waste of Boyd's horse but I guess they 'need' to get to the Olympics. Would have preferred Liz over Doug, think its a bit of a shame considering her success at that level. Sure, Doug had a good Kentucky but Liz has horses better suited for the Pan Ams and when she goes, she wins. She should have had that spot, maybe Doug as a reserve...

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    • #22
      Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
      Meh I think this is a waste of Boyd's horse but I guess they 'need' to get to the Olympics. Would have preferred Liz over Doug, think its a bit of a shame considering her success at that level. Sure, Doug had a good Kentucky but Liz has horses better suited for the Pan Ams and when she goes, she wins. She should have had that spot, maybe Doug as a reserve...
      She does have a good XC record and overall record for FEI, but she had 2 horse falls since April so wondering they took that into consideration.
      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

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      • #23
        Team musings from someone who doesn't actually know a whole lot but is a fan and is interested in the topic and just spent some time looking up FEI level results (did not look up national level results).

        Tsetserleg is the only one of the named "first team" horses who has done a 5*. He has also been in Boyd's string for a relatively long time (since 2016) "by Boyd standards". Don't take that as a slam at Boyd, but as has been noted here before, he seems to historically have a lot of horses that show up for a couple of high level events and then fade into obscurity. So wondering if naming Tsetserleg is a "might as well put him on the team while we can" decision. Other than Tsetserleg, Vandiver, and Pfun, none of the named horses are 5* horses (so 3 of 12 named horses have done 5*s).

        It also seems the selectors weight riders somewhat higher than the horses in the selection process. They seem to like putting riders on the team who have multiple horses to choose from - which is interesting to me from the standpoint that it hasn't worked out so well in the recent past, and eventing really isn't a team sport.

        I do think both Doug and Tamie are solid choices - will it be Tamie's first pink coat as well? Glad to see them both get the opportunity as they both seem to be consistently at the top in the US game with multiple horses. A little unsure about Starr Witness as she is young and seems a little unseasoned compared to some others.

        I tend to think Lauren and Bug would be on the team if Lauren hadn't had the fall at WEG.

        Very strange to not see Philip on the team but his high level horse string seems a bit lacking at present - though Sea of Clouds FEI xc record is pretty darn clean so far.

        I didn't realize until I looked up her FEI results that Cooley Quicksilver had a horse fall had Weisbaden earlier this month.
        Last edited by Groom&Taxi; Jun. 18, 2019, 02:06 PM.

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        • #24
          The Canadian deadline for naming a team is June 21, I think so that’s why that date - June 19 - is the EC nomination date.

          Anyone here going to be in Lima? I’ll be there the first week coaching my pentathlon team.

          Also, in case anyone is interested in superior sports, the pentathlon riding competition should be good - the horses come from the army equitation school and they’re real quality jumpers. Their regular army riders are super nice and helpful with the pentathletes, too.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post
            he seems to historically have a lot of horses that show up for a couple of high level events and then fade into obscurity. So wondering if naming Tsetserleg is a "might as well put him on the team while we can" decision.
            I wondered about that too, but the horse did WEG last year as well. Despite the stop, he has already ticked the "sent to a championship" box.

            Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post
            Other than Tsetserleg, Vandiver, and Pfun, none of the named horses are 5* horses (so 3 of 12 named horses have done 5*s).
            Your point is a good one generally, but to be a stickler Vermiculus has also done 3 5*s and WEG.

            Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post
            A little unsure about Starr Witness as she is young and seems a little unseasoned compared to some others.
            Selfishly, I love this horse, so I'm thrilled to see her any way I can.

            Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post
            Sea of Clouds FEI xc record is pretty darn clean so far.
            I don't believe this horse is showing the quality on the flat (at least not at this stage - he's only 8) to really be a contributor to a big team result. He's only been doing this for three years though, so I have faith he just needs a bit more time to develop. Otherwise I quite like him.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Marigold View Post
              Your point is a good one generally, but to be a stickler Vermiculus has also done 3 5*s and WEG.
              Good catch - thank you.

              Originally posted by Marigold View Post
              I don't believe this horse is showing the quality on the flat (at least not at this stage - he's only 8) to really be a contributor to a big team result. He's only been doing this for three years though, so I have faith he just needs a bit more time to develop. Otherwise I quite like him.
              From my perspective as a fan who really wants to see the US get their Olympic qualification, I would like to feel like we have four horse and rider pairs who have as high a likelihood as possible for getting around the XC with no jump penalties. From that perspective, seeing Philip's name up there would be a bit reassuring - not that the named team can't get it done - I sure hope they will.

              Who is the xc course designer for this year's Pan Ams? I've googled and haven't gotten to the answer in several pages of results.

              Comment


              • #27
                I would hope Vandiver goes instead of Starr Witness. How old are these horses anyway? 8, 9 years old? We need to send team horses not hopefuls. I would feel better about Mai Baum than the younger less experienced horse. Liz has been doing well at the 3 * overseas but didn't do well at Kentucky. And if Quicksilver fell, that is probably why she didn't get the nod. But as a reserve, I would think Fernhill by Night is her best chance. What level s this going to be anyway? 3*? 4*? Surely not a 5*?
                Another killer of threads

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Groom&Taxi View Post


                  Who is the xc course designer for this year's Pan Ams? I've googled and haven't gotten to the answer in several pages of results.
                  If I read it right, its Guillermo Noguiera.

                  https://www.lima2019.pe/en/news/lead...uestrian-venue

                  Although this shows he is a jumping designer, not eventing. Maybe they made an exception https://data.fei.org/OffListRpts/Off...OffFct_CDe.pdf

                  Larksmom its a 3*....Intermediate.
                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
                    But as a reserve, I would think Fernhill by Night is her best chance.
                    Fernhill By Night does not run long formats (today's "long formats") of any kind/level - the last time he finished one was 2015 and it didn't go well. Liz has said publicly that his previous xc issues came because the horse hates to feel tired, and so she does not gallop him over those distances anymore. A 3*-L would be closer to the 4*-S that is his specialty, but may still be a bridge too far - besides which, if the horse won't ever run a 4*-L, there is no point giving him team experience.

                    I have a lot of respect for Liz for listening to the horse and figuring out what he is telling her, and then planning for him accordingly. He seems to appreciate that, if the success they've enjoyed recently is any indication. But I doubt he'd appreciate Pan Ams (and consequently, I doubt he was even declared).

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                    • #30
                      Over the moon for Lynn, Tamie, and Doug in particular. Obviously, their stars have been high for a long time, but still so excited to see them get so much attention together. I love Boyd, too, but his inclusion was pretty much a given.

                      Good luck JER ! How cool that we'll have some "boots on the ground" insight.
                      Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
                        I would hope Vandiver goes instead of Starr Witness. How old are these horses anyway? 8, 9 years old? We need to send team horses not hopefuls. I would feel better about Mai Baum than the younger less experienced horse. Liz has been doing well at the 3 * overseas but didn't do well at Kentucky. And if Quicksilver fell, that is probably why she didn't get the nod. But as a reserve, I would think Fernhill by Night is her best chance. What level s this going to be anyway? 3*? 4*? Surely not a 5*?
                        Don't forget, this is just a beefy, slightly longer intermediate. In all likelihood, it should be a dressage competition. All of these horses are solid at the level and did well at the selection events that were previously named. Yes, most are younger but honestly, they should have no problem with the course and all are very capable of putting in a mid-twenties dressage.

                        I'm a huge fan of Doug's mare and she's a very consistent show jumper. Fleeceworks Royal ran Boekelo 4*-L in the fall and finished in the top 10 in an extremely competitive field. Mai Baum has struggled with soundness and has had the odd XC issue.

                        For me, Lynn's horse is the only one that's a bit of a head scratcher. I don't hate the pick, but he's the least experienced of the bunch.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Team for Aachen also announced:

                          https://eventingnation.com/u-s-names...achen-ccio4-s/

                          Phillip & Z
                          Liz & Deniro Z
                          Caroline Martin & Islandwood Captain Jack
                          Tami & Wembley

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Larksmom View Post
                            I would hope Vandiver goes instead of Starr Witness. How old are these horses anyway? 8, 9 years old? We need to send team horses not hopefuls. I would feel better about Mai Baum than the younger less experienced horse. Liz has been doing well at the 3 * overseas but didn't do well at Kentucky. And if Quicksilver fell, that is probably why she didn't get the nod. But as a reserve, I would think Fernhill by Night is her best chance. What level s this going to be anyway? 3*? 4*? Surely not a 5*?
                            I kind of wonder if they are hoping to aim Vandiver to the Olympics and that's why they are using Starr Witness for the PanAms instead, to try to conserve him. Just idle speculation though, no idea if that could actually be a reason to put his mare on the team for the PanAms with Quinn as a reserve.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post

                              I kind of wonder if they are hoping to aim Vandiver to the Olympics and that's why they are using Starr Witness for the PanAms instead, to try to conserve him. Just idle speculation though, no idea if that could actually be a reason to put his mare on the team for the PanAms with Quinn as a reserve.
                              Ordinarily, I would absolutely agree with that, but since we have to qualify for the Olympics, I think we need to win this to make sure we GO to the Olympics. Best foot forward.
                              Another killer of threads

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
                                Meh I think this is a waste of Boyd's horse but I guess they 'need' to get to the Olympics. Would have preferred Liz over Doug, think its a bit of a shame considering her success at that level. Sure, Doug had a good Kentucky but Liz has horses better suited for the Pan Ams and when she goes, she wins. She should have had that spot, maybe Doug as a reserve...
                                Liz was just announced for the Nations Cup Team in Germany, so it is more than fair that Doug made the Pan Am Team. Since Doug has never been on a Team, you have no clue if he does win or doesn't. He, also, has done really well on Starr Witness this past Spring. If we don't start injecting new blood into our Teams, we will never get anywhere. JMHO
                                When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Benchmark View Post
                                  Team for Aachen also announced:

                                  https://eventingnation.com/u-s-names...achen-ccio4-s/

                                  Phillip & Z
                                  Liz & Deniro Z
                                  Caroline Martin & Islandwood Captain Jack
                                  Tami & Wembley
                                  I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but any idea why Deniro Z and Islandwood Captain Jack, neither of whom completed at K3D are on this team? Are they already over there and a cheap team completer or are we paying to fly them over?

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    This may have been posted already by someone else, but it's my understanding that the Pan Ams aren't as demanding as the OGs or the Aachens, so the up-and-coming UL horses or horses known to be good at the expected level are the ones that get chosen.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by IFG View Post

                                      I don't usually get involved in these discussions, but any idea why Deniro Z and Islandwood Captain Jack, neither of whom completed at K3D are on this team? Are they already over there and a cheap team completer or are we paying to fly them over?
                                      Both Deniro Z & Wembley are already in Europe and, in my opinion, Deniro Z is still a very serious team horse. I may be proven wrong if his Kentucky issues become a trend, but I've been watching him for a while and think he's the real deal. He looked fantastic at Luhmuhlen last year, and pretty much everywhere else I've seen him, save Kentucky.

                                      I'd assume Caroline & Islandwood Captain Jack are the token up and coming pair chosen. It's worth noting that there's a lot of behind the scenes that we outsiders looking in don't see. Erik's now been training these guys for over a year and presumably has developed some opinions based on what he's seen in training, not just in competition. I like the horse a lot and he's probably been tagged as one for the future.

                                      The end of this article gives some good insight into the strategy: https://eventingnation.com/reporters...-about-aachen/

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Benchmark View Post

                                        Both Deniro Z & Wembley are already in Europe and, in my opinion, Deniro Z is still a very serious team horse. I may be proven wrong if his Kentucky issues become a trend, but I've been watching him for a while and think he's the real deal. He looked fantastic at Luhmuhlen last year, and pretty much everywhere else I've seen him, save Kentucky.

                                        I'd assume Caroline & Islandwood Captain Jack are the token up and coming pair chosen. It's worth noting that there's a lot of behind the scenes that we outsiders looking in don't see. Erik's now been training these guys for over a year and presumably has developed some opinions based on what he's seen in training, not just in competition. I like the horse a lot and he's probably been tagged as one for the future.

                                        The end of this article gives some good insight into the strategy: https://eventingnation.com/reporters...-about-aachen/
                                        Makes sense. Thanks for the insight!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          OK, this is gonna date me, but when I saw the title of this thread these are the PanAms I pictured --

                                          Rack on!

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