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Boyd Martin - Major League Eventing Podcast

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  • #21
    Originally posted by evilc123 View Post
    About halfway through the Boyd podcast (2.5 hrs!!). For those who have listened, I am curious to know what you thought of their discussion on male vs female. Maybe I am hypersensitive due to the heightened ongoing political discourse on gender and equality, but I was disappointed to come away feeling like Rob and Boyd were a bit archaic in their views...even if "archaic" just infers limited critical thought on the issue. Any other thoughts on this from those of you who heard it?
    I actually thought he was pretty tactful about the whole thing considering the circumstances. I mean that whole panel at the convention was basically Lynn & KOC complaining about Lynn's inability to get sponsors while simultaneously implying that Boyd (who wasn't there) doesn't even have to try.

    If you haven't seen the recording of the panel, it's a fairly interesting watch.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by mugsgame View Post

      Do I think there is sexism in the sport? maybe but its not as overt like other sports such as show jumping where men have a very distinct advantage over women in getting ahead.

      I think women in eventing have to be much more careful in creating their media profile and sometimes do not get as much traction. On the whole I think there is a fair amount of parity in how people got to the top in eventing in both men and women.
      1) Family backing (Money or knowledge)
      2) Amazing mentor
      3) Grafted

      I know that Sam Watson made some comments on 'Girl Power' recently saying actually he was anti this acknowledgement of girl power but has since come to realise that women are consistently marginalised in sport and so we should be supporting their achievements. We have also seen it with Piggy French and Jonelle Price about the baby thing. Its not like Jonelle was shoddy before having a baby. Having the baby has not made a difference to her being a world class athlete.
      It's not just the physical effects of having a baby that put women at a disadvantage (although they can be an issue too and obviously differ case by case!) it's the having to take almost two years away from being at the top of the sport, risking losing horses and owners, at a time in your life (25-40) when you are physically at your peak and working to build a business as well as compete. And then after that, you have to manage childcare and everything, so unless you can afford a pretty much full time employee to nanny, or have a grandparent/ family member able to do it, one parent's career is going to suffer for at least five years. The reality in the United States at least is that it's usually the woman's.

      Comment


      • #23
        I had no idea about the panel, so with that context Boyd's comments about gender discrimination make a lot more sense.

        I think gender discrimination in any workforce is a bit tricky to discuss, because men may take it as an attack that they are not good enough or they don't deserve to be where they are. In reality, what people are trying to draw attention to is if the same person, with the same set of skills were born into a woman's body, they may not find themselves to be as successful.

        I think Boyd is absolutely right that he gets sponsors and owners because he is a hard worker, because he networks strategically and because he has a good work ethic. However, I think he might be completely glossing over any advantages he may have from being a good looking man with an outgoing personality and getting lucky with his connections.

        It just feels a bit like a successful person telling you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Absolutely, most successful people in this world are highly skilled, talented and hard workers. But not all highly skilled, talented, hard workers are highly successful. Luck and circumstance have a lot of influence in how things shake out.

        I appreciated how open and honest and Boyd's comments were, loved the interview. I'll have to add MLE to my podcast rotation. I love listening to podcasts while I do barn chores in the mornings and during my rides!

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by luckycricket123 View Post
          I had no idea about the panel, so with that context Boyd's comments about gender discrimination make a lot more sense.

          I think gender discrimination in any workforce is a bit tricky to discuss, because men may take it as an attack that they are not good enough or they don't deserve to be where they are. In reality, what people are trying to draw attention to is if the same person, with the same set of skills were born into a woman's body, they may not find themselves to be as successful.

          I think Boyd is absolutely right that he gets sponsors and owners because he is a hard worker, because he networks strategically and because he has a good work ethic. However, I think he might be completely glossing over any advantages he may have from being a good looking man with an outgoing personality and getting lucky with his connections.

          It just feels a bit like a successful person telling you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Absolutely, most successful people in this world are highly skilled, talented and hard workers. But not all highly skilled, talented, hard workers are highly successful. Luck and circumstance have a lot of influence in how things shake out.

          I appreciated how open and honest and Boyd's comments were, loved the interview. I'll have to add MLE to my podcast rotation. I love listening to podcasts while I do barn chores in the mornings and during my rides!
          THIS. This is very eloquently and fairly put, and captures the essence of how I felt listening to Boyd and Rob discuss gender. Maybe I am a little spoiled by the men that I am frequently around who are much more acutely aware of this disparity.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by luckycricket123 View Post

            I think Boyd is absolutely right that he gets sponsors and owners because he is a hard worker, because he networks strategically and because he has a good work ethic. However, I think he might be completely glossing over any advantages he may have from being a good looking man with an outgoing personality and getting lucky with his connections.
            Exactly. Coming to the US and landing at PD’s barn sets one up for success in and of itself. Add good looks, Australian accent, and gregarious personality = winning recipe that most sponsors looking to sell products (to a primarily female client base) are going to line up for.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by luckycricket123 View Post
              I think gender discrimination in any workforce is a bit tricky to discuss, because men may take it as an attack that they are not good enough or they don't deserve to be where they are. In reality, what people are trying to draw attention to is if the same person, with the same set of skills were born into a woman's body, they may not find themselves to be as successful.

              I think Boyd is absolutely right that he gets sponsors and owners because he is a hard worker, because he networks strategically and because he has a good work ethic. However, I think he might be completely glossing over any advantages he may have from being a good looking man with an outgoing personality and getting lucky with his connections.

              It just feels a bit like a successful person telling you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Absolutely, most successful people in this world are highly skilled, talented and hard workers. But not all highly skilled, talented, hard workers are highly successful. Luck and circumstance have a lot of influence in how things shake out.
              I know others ( evilc123 , flyingchange ) have already pointed this out, but this really is a flawless post. Thanks for contributing and saying it better than I could have!

              Comment


              • #27
                I'm listening right now, and my general feelings on this issue are that I have met quite a few people in the horse industry whose political views on gender don't align with my own (feminist since birth, one of my academic areas of interest was in women's studies way back when I was in grad school), but Boyd has always struck me as someone who, on a personal level, really does treat people 100% equally, often much more so than people in other industries who may say but not do the "correct" things. I know he's very demanding of his working students and people who attend his clinics, but I've also heard he's very fair and unbiased (and most of the people I know who have worked/ clinic-ed with him are women).

                However, there is no doubt women face additional obstacles in all equestrian sports--not just in terms of childbearing and care, but also as we've seen in terms of the threat of sexual harassment. It's important to acknowledge this. Even if individual men may be hard-working and deserve their success, that doesn't erase the additional struggles women of equal ability must overcome.

                One of the many reasons I'm rooting so hard for Ros Canter to hold on to her No.1 spot after having her baby.
                Last edited by Impractical Horsewoman; May. 22, 2019, 06:34 PM.
                Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by flyingchange View Post

                  Exactly. Coming to the US and landing at PD’s barn sets one up for success in and of itself. Add good looks, Australian accent, and gregarious personality = winning recipe that most sponsors looking to sell products (to a primarily female client base) are going to line up for.
                  Did you listen to the podcast...he makes some really good points about how he got where he is. How he explains that you can have the attitude of entitlement or have the attitude of being grateful. How he also explains that everyone is lucky in different ways; some have more money, some have family farms so no mortgage payment, some work with better trainers.....so while some have advantages in some areas, others have it in other ways but it all works out and boils down to - drive and hard work.

                  I actually have a lot more respect for Boyd after listening to this, not that I didn't before but I really admire his attitude and focus that clearly has helped get him and keep him at the top.
                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Check this out; https://play.acast.com/s/horsehour
                    ... _. ._ .._. .._

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Lottery funding in the UK for the sport does seem to be tremendously helpful for all riders, as does the greater base of interest among the general public. It may be a bit of an example of a rising tide lifting all boats, male and female.

                      Controversy aside, I hope the podcast interviews Lynn Symansky in the future. She's one of my favorite riders and horsewomen, period, and the relationship she's had with Donner (even though he's probably coming to the end of his UL career) has been so interesting. I would like to see her get more sponsorship, support, and more rides, period, and that's no slight on Boyd's inspiring hard work and horsemanship.
                      Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Okay, well after listening to the full 2.5 hrs I am disappointed to say that I find BM to be a bit of a pompous dick. But...he’s Boyd Martin, so I guess he’s earned that right! Seems like I’m the minority here of the people who have listened though.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          My favorite moment was his description of bringing Long Island T to Wellington. Something like: "It was like smugglers taking drugs through the airport. You know you're going to get caught, but you just keep going."
                          Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                            Did you listen to the podcast...he makes some really good points about how he got where he is. How he explains that you can have the attitude of entitlement or have the attitude of being grateful. How he also explains that everyone is lucky in different ways; some have more money, some have family farms so no mortgage payment, some work with better trainers.....so while some have advantages in some areas, others have it in other ways but it all works out and boils down to - drive and hard work.

                            I actually have a lot more respect for Boyd after listening to this, not that I didn't before but I really admire his attitude and focus that clearly has helped get him and keep him at the top.
                            ?? I didn’t say he hasn’t worked hard to get to where he is. I’m saying that he has, since coming to the US at least, had some things going for him that perhaps not everyone has. He was well-connected before he even got on the plane to come here - and connections are a major piece of success in any venture - whether one is talented and/or works hard or not. I support Boyd and feel he deserves to be where he is. Not sure why you are inferring the opposite from my post.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I've said this before here, but you also have to consider what it takes to be a young man coming up in this sport before you go saying that men have some advantage. I could not tell you how many times I've had this conversation:

                              "Oh, you're really tall and athletic! Do you play basketball??"

                              "No, actually I ride horses!"

                              "Oh, hmmmm..."

                              It is by no means easy or welcoming to be a young male rider in America. Every single marketing campaign is targeted towards "a young girl's love of horses" and we have about 5% of the apparel market, all of which is marked up. And how many times have you heard big name trainers say "we have great girls at the barn that help us out."

                              If you don't come from a horsey family, men and boys are fighting an uphill battle with feeling accepted in this sport. Period.

                              It is not some cakewalk for men, contrary to what many people seem to think...

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I really like this podcast for the stories and insights into the rider’s lives and programs. Rob drives me nuts as a host, though. From the very first episodes I always felt like he dominated the conversation and cut off his wife and their guests. However, I listen to a lot of podcasts and am probably a bit spoiled by some of the really well produced ones by NPR, as well as several others. There are times that I just want to yell at him through my car speakers to stop interrupting, changing the conversation thread, judging, and just listen, or use reflective staments, or any other interviewing techniques to encourage someone to share without leading, bias, and/or sucking up.

                                I do realize this is a fantastic medium and we are lucky to have it, but he just is not my favorite ‘podcast personality.’ - whew! Felt good to get that off my chest

                                Boyd’s episode was fantastic in many ways! I love how honest and candid he was about so may things. He acknowledged places he went wrong (Wellington with a new horse) and praised others, like Dom, when deserved. I do think, he has a bit of a blind spot for how difficult things are for a female athlete in any sport, when it comes to children, sport, cultural expectations and who has to give up what. I get the sense he is trying to ‘get’ it, though, so can appreciate that.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Benchmark View Post
                                  I've said this before here, but you also have to consider what it takes to be a young man coming up in this sport before you go saying that men have some advantage. I could not tell you how many times I've had this conversation:

                                  "Oh, you're really tall and athletic! Do you play basketball??"

                                  "No, actually I ride horses!"

                                  "Oh, hmmmm..."

                                  It is by no means easy or welcoming to be a young male rider in America. Every single marketing campaign is targeted towards "a young girl's love of horses" and we have about 5% of the apparel market, all of which is marked up. And how many times have you heard big name trainers say "we have great girls at the barn that help us out."

                                  If you don't come from a horsey family, men and boys are fighting an uphill battle with feeling accepted in this sport. Period.

                                  It is not some cakewalk for men, contrary to what many people seem to think...
                                  I have to agree with this. I’m a woman, and I don’t deny that sexism still exists in many aspects of society and feminism has its role ... but I really don’t think that women are overall at a disadvantage when it comes to eventing in this day and age. Men and women both have their challenges and advantages in our sport.

                                  Re: Boyd Martin and sponsors - I don’t think it’s sexism in the traditional sense that makes it easier for him to find sponsors. But when companies are trying to sell their product to a 90% female consumer base, who better to advertise it than an attractive, personable man with a successful competition record and an accent? Sure it’s stereotypical ... but they do it because it works.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Benchmark View Post
                                    I've said this before here, but you also have to consider what it takes to be a young man coming up in this sport before you go saying that men have some advantage. I could not tell you how many times I've had this conversation:

                                    "Oh, you're really tall and athletic! Do you play basketball??"

                                    "No, actually I ride horses!"

                                    "Oh, hmmmm..."

                                    It is by no means easy or welcoming to be a young male rider in America. Every single marketing campaign is targeted towards "a young girl's love of horses" and we have about 5% of the apparel market, all of which is marked up. And how many times have you heard big name trainers say "we have great girls at the barn that help us out."

                                    If you don't come from a horsey family, men and boys are fighting an uphill battle with feeling accepted in this sport. Period.

                                    It is not some cakewalk for men, contrary to what many people seem to think...
                                    But how do you explain the gender numbers at the top levels of sport? By your argument, since there are a preponderance of women/girls at the lower levels (by far), then there should also be a preponderance of women at the highest levels. But there aren't.

                                    So, starting from a much smaller pool (relatively speaking) at the lowest levels, nevertheless at the top there are as many or even MORE men. In other words, the numbers say that a high percentage of males who do enter equestrian sport rocket to the top -- not that it's hard to make it to the top if you're male.
                                    If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by flyingchange View Post

                                      ?? I didn’t say he hasn’t worked hard to get to where he is. I’m saying that he has, since coming to the US at least, had some things going for him that perhaps not everyone has. He was well-connected before he even got on the plane to come here - and connections are a major piece of success in any venture - whether one is talented and/or works hard or not. I support Boyd and feel he deserves to be where he is. Not sure why you are inferring the opposite from my post.
                                      To me it came across like you attributed his success to his good looks and charm and who he knows, which I disagree with. We can each take our own opinion from the piece, no need to get defensive. I was genuinely asking if you listened to it....which you still didn't answer but felt the need to reply otherwise?
                                      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        EventingChase I totally agree and thats why I had listened to one episode before and didn't go back for a long time, I'm not a huge fan of his style.

                                        Rallycairn it is similar in showjumping, more men at the top. I honestly think it has to do with bravery. Maybe I am wrong but it seems there are more men who are brave enough for those ULs than women.
                                        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          So, starting from a much smaller pool (relatively speaking) at the lowest levels, nevertheless, at the top there are as many or even MORE men. In other words, the numbers say that a high percentage of males who do enter equestrian sport rocket to the top -- not that it's hard to make it to the top if you're male.

                                          How many top wins are women and how many wins from men? Besides the one thing that might hold some younger women back is the possibility of childbirth. If you DO make it to the top, just as Roz Canter, this is gonna put a wrench in her career. There are just no two ways about it. The Brits did put up an all women's team at the WEG, and they won it all. But you know that most of the big wins are from men. When is the last time a woman won Ky? Was it Pippa? In the 70 years of Badminton, how many women have won?

                                          I have no idea how to find these podcasts. I am willing to peek out of my cave if someone will point the way.
                                          Another killer of threads

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