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Changes in the eventing world

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  • #61
    If you look at the number of horses allowed @65 plus 15 reserves "stabled and entered"

    That would be 45 team horses + the 15 reserves,and 20 individuals.



    It says this under the Substitution heading #6

    "Where an Athlete/Horse combination is substituted, the replacement combination will not be eligible for the Individual Jumping test."

    https://inside.fei.org/system/files/...Equestrian.pdf

    It's all in that little document!
    ... _. ._ .._. .._

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #62
      It's not quite as clear as all that.
      There is also this:
      P Alternate Athletes are non-competing Athletes, and are not included within the Athlete’s quota as described in Athletes Quota above. More detailed information about entitlements and quotas can be found in the ‘Accreditation at the Olympic Games – Users Guide’. “P” Alternate Athletes can only become competing Athletes as per the conditions outlined in the ‘IOC/Tokyo2020 Late Athlete Replacement policy’. (IOC wording). (see also “Substitutions” below) Only the NOCs that have qualified a team are entitled to P athlete
      Jumping and dressage are also 3 member teams with one P Alternate Athlete per team "stabled and entered".

      Under the special eventing substitution rules, no medical reason is required for substitution if a horse doesn't finish XC.

      6. Substitution – specific procedure for the Eventing Team Competition -Regular substitution procedure (Request II – see Art 609.3.2) applies up to two hours before the first start of Dressage test without any penalty
      -Horse Inspections, starting and result lists (if substitute is activated) must include the Reserve Horse/”P” rider
      -Numbering of Horses for Eventing Reserve Horses on Olympic starting lists. Horse number will be different to the competition number.
      -P Alternate Athlete/Reserve Horse take the slot of the withdrawn (WD) combination= competition number for the XC and Team Jumping
      -Where an Athlete/Horse combination is substituted, the replacement combination will not be eligible for the Individual Jumping test.

      Substitution activation:
      - 1st Horse Inspection: if a Horse is not accepted at the 1st Horse Inspection, regular substitution will apply (no penalty).
      - Dressage: The Athlete/Horse combination can continue, incurring 100 penalties in Cross Country test for team classification unless the Athlete/Horse is eliminated for a lameness, fall of Horse or Abuse of Horse or otherwise Disqualified.
      - Dressage: the Athlete/Horse combination can be substituted if eliminated (EL), withdrawn (WD), retired (RT) but not if he has been eliminated for Abuse of Horse or otherwise Disqualified.
      - Cross Country: The Athlete/Horse combination can continue, incurring 200 penalties, in team Jumping test for the team classification unless the Athlete/Horse is eliminated for a lameness, fall of Horse, Dangerous riding or Abuse of Horse or otherwise Disqualified, providing the horse is presented to and passed the 2nd Horse Inspection.
      - Cross Country: the Athlete/Horse combination can be substituted if eliminated (EL), withdrawn (WD), retired (RT) but not if he has been eliminated for Dangerous riding or Abuse of Horse or otherwise Disqualified
      .- 2nd Horse Inspection: all Horses participating in the Team Jumping test (see above) must have to be presented and passed. If a Horse is not accepted at the 2nd Horse Inspection, it can be substituted with the Reserve Horse if it has not yet competed and if the horse has been accepted at both the 1st and 2nd Horse Inspection.
      - The starting position of the Reserve combination in the Team Jumping test will be the same position as the combination eliminated on Cross Country.
      Clear as mud.
      Last edited by vineyridge; May. 13, 2019, 08:52 AM.

      Comment


      • #63
        - Cross Country: the Athlete/Horse combination can be substituted if eliminated (EL), withdrawn (WD), retired (RT) but not if he has been eliminated for Dangerous riding or Abuse of Horse or otherwise Disqualified
        The wicked spirits that sit on people's shoulders and whisper into their ears will love this.

        The more convoluted is any system of rules, the more people will think of creative ways to manipulate and exploit them.

        Plus, the way people behave in a test competition vs the way they will behave at an actual Olympics ... well, at the Olympics they will go to the wall with creative manipulation when they won't ahead of time.

        Not to mention that Olympic teams and competitors have a way of raising strong protests when they feel rules were interpreted against their interest. Sometimes they even go to court to challenge the medals.

        The Olympics is not really the place to try out a lot of new stuff that isn't yet fully understood and proven.

        What was wrong with the 4 member team and the drop score ... ?

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post


          What was wrong with the 4 member team and the drop score ... ?
          In order to fit in with IOC criteria, eventing required more flags (nations) taking part. The IOC were not willing to budge on the total number of horses/athletes taking part, so the only way to achieve this was to go to 3 person teams.

          Lots of blogs about it by Pippa Cuckson make interesting reading:
          https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-rep...ort-straw-yet/
          https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-report/threes-a-charm/

          One thing she brings up a lot is voting rights in the FEI - all nations (132!) have equal voting rights yet a majority of these have no team near Olympic standard in any discipline. So of course they will vote for changes allowing more flags in the Olympics, on the off-chance they might one day have a rider at that level.
          Explains a lot of FEI decisions that leave us all scratching our heads.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Branna View Post

            One thing she brings up a lot is voting rights in the FEI - all nations (132!) have equal voting rights yet a majority of these have no team near Olympic standard in any discipline. So of course they will vote for changes allowing more flags in the Olympics, on the off-chance they might one day have a rider at that level.
            Explains a lot of FEI decisions that leave us all scratching our heads.
            This is a really interesting point.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #66
              What I'm wondering is who will determine if a horse is unfit to continue after XC. Is it only horses who fail the second jog, or can a Team decide not to present because they say the horse can't go on to sj and and take the 20 penalties for a substitution? Will there be an official examination to verify the unfitness?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Branna View Post

                In order to fit in with IOC criteria, eventing required more flags (nations) taking part. The IOC were not willing to budge on the total number of horses/athletes taking part, so the only way to achieve this was to go to 3 person teams.
                .......
                This is where I lose the thread. For this substitution thing to work or even make sense, it sounds as if the extra/substitute/reserve rider is riding all the phases. Regardless, they have to be there with accommodations and travel space. So how have the number of competitors per team been reduced?

                Compared with other sports, not that many nations have teams entered in eventing anyway.

                Anyway ... if ever there were a time to consider eventing exiting the Olympics, this is it, as far as I'm concerned. When is it not worth it any more?

                Comment


                • #68
                  From one of the Pippa Cuckson articles linked above ...
                  https://horse-canada.com/cuckson-rep...ort-straw-yet/

                  .... It always amazes me how, in the end, all equestrian sport knuckles under, in the face of irrational and unpopular change.

                  I am certain the folly of no drop-score was highlighted many times by stakeholders before being rubber-stamped by the FEI’s 132 member national federations – most of whom will never field a full team in Olympic-anything. But a lot of FEI hierarchy has never given the impression of being hugely interested in, or informed about, eventing. It would rather go to a five-star jumping show any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
                  Why is it considered so important for eventing to be in the Olympics?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
                    Why is it considered so important for eventing to be in the Olympics?
                    From a UK perspective, the funding for the World Class Programme is based on the potential to win Olympic medals, determined by UK Sport and funded in part by the National Lottery. It is an integral part of the structure of the sport.

                    The Olympics are the most recognisable and significant event across nations and sports, giving validation to many sports that otherwise are fairly niche. Personally I do think it is important for us to stay in the Olympics, and many sports have had to adapt to stay a part of it. That said, I just can't see how 3 in a team can work for our discipline!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BAC View Post

                      Thanks, because he sounded older I assumed he had been Duke for quite some time. I am glad he also has a son, so hopefully there will be a Duke of Beaufort supporting Badminton forever. Hugh Thomas deserves a retirement, he has earned it.
                      The Dukes of Beaufort have lived at Badminton since the 17th century. The title was created in 1682 by Charles II. The 11th Duke died at age 89 in 2017 and was succeeded by his eldest son. Since they have been around for so many years I imagine they will be around for many more, especially considering that the Hunt has been around for about the same length of time.

                      I agree that a 71-year-old man deserves to retire, especially after 30 years on the job! Nothing sinister about it; he probably just got tired. Which is why many people retire in their 60s.
                      Rack on!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Scratching head !
                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Hugh Thomas wanted to retire last year but they asked him to stay on another year to wrap up Mitsubishi sponsorship. That way the new director can bring in fresh ideas and start with a clean slate.

                          TBH I have no issue with the Olympics. Look at what it has done for the Japanese riders and the more people in eventing and the more nations - the better.
                          The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.

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