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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

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SafeSport Center Bans Eventing Official Andrew Temkin

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  • SafeSport Center Bans Eventing Official Andrew Temkin

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...-andrew-temkin
    Temkin will now be banned from coaching, competing, attending or officiating at any USEF-recognized events. Temkin is also suspended from the FEI, as all individuals suspended from the USEF are reciprocally.

    To view a full list of individuals with SafeSport violations, click here.
    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

  • #2
    From the article - "Temkin served on the USEF SafeSport Ad Hoc Task Force—a group that formed in January of 2018 on the request of USEF CEO Murray Kessler to draft a rule that, among other things, would expand SafeSport training requirements."

    How bizarre.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm looking at the list and wondering if Jimmy Williams is 'permanently ineligible' because - as the list helpfully notes - he's deceased - or because of what he did.

      Is USEF really concerned about the dead returning to the sport? Or is that because show hunters really are zombies?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by xcjumper
        Funny....I just saw him at the Galway show this past weekend. Probably watching his daughter ride. But it says that he can't even attend shows on the statement.
        I wonder how that will be enforced? Call the cops? What if the event is on public land?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by groom View Post

          I wonder how that will be enforced? Call the cops? What if the event is on public land?
          I wondered the same thing. And then there is the question of whether the officials that failed to remove him from the grounds are subject to disciplinary action for failure to take action.

          Comment


          • #6
            There is an interesting difference at the moment between USEF and FEI suspensions. USEF prohibits attendance at its competitions; the FEI allows it if all the person is doing is "spectating". This came up during the reciprocal suspension of the ADHD three. Then, the USEF said that since their suspension with USEF was only reciprocal to the FEI's and since the FEI allowed attendance, the USEF would not prohibit it. Now we have the opposite situation. I will mention that the FEI has proposed a rule change to give it the power to keep banned and suspended people away from show grounds, but that hasn't passed the General Assembly.

            So, at the moment, it's entirely possible that Temkin is only prohibited from attending competitions that are not FEI. Or it's possible that the FEI will honor the complete US Safe Sport/USEF terms of suspension.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • #7
              I wonder if show organizers are checking the list. I wonder if they have policy and procedures for dealing with the presence of someone who should not be there per a USEF ruling.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by packy mcgaughan View Post

                I wondered the same thing. And then there is the question of whether the officials that failed to remove him from the grounds are subject to disciplinary action for failure to take action.
                That would be crazy, expecting our LO's to police the spectators. I suspect there is no plan or procedure for this because there can't be, as a practical matter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
                  I wonder if show organizers are checking the list. I wonder if they have policy and procedures for dealing with the presence of someone who should not be there per a USEF ruling.
                  They do, and are checking lists for competitors (and officials). How can they possibly know who is in the audience?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Didn't Barney Ward get escorted off a showgrounds after his lifetime ban?

                    The USEF is a member federation and can ban someone from membership or presence at activities.

                    At the FEI level, it's different because the FEI is an IF and its membership is the various NFs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JER View Post
                      Didn't Barney Ward get escorted off a showgrounds after his lifetime ban?
                      Yes, presumably because someone ratted him out when they saw him in the stands. Not because the officials had some way of screening spectators without a tip/reason to look.

                      I heard stories of him going in disguise to USEF shows after being removed but I don't know if that is true or not.

                      ~Veronica
                      "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                      http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What this points out is the gap between 'safe sport' and the law. The law specifically as it applies to adults who have inappropriate contact with minors.

                        If you are charged with and convicted of or plead guilty to child molestation, you are usually given conditions to abide by if you're still allowed out in the community. You have to stay away from certain things, you have to check in regularly, you have to submit DNA for CODIS, etc.

                        So when is molestation of a minor not molestation of a minor? When do we call it a crime and when do we apply the principals of 'safe sport'?

                        Sport organizations have harbored sexual predators for ages. USA Swimming and USA Gymnastics are probably the most notorious of the lot but it happens in many NFs. Ronda Rousey is a big MMA star now but when she was a teenage judoka, she single-handedly blew the whistle on a long time predator who was in a powerful position with her federation. She went after the federation publicly for allowing and enabling this guy to continue in his ways. Because she was a big name in US judo, the NF had to listen (and they fought her too, it was awful).

                        But improper sexual activity with a minor is a crime and should be treated as such.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sad that they were more likely interested in covering their @$$ than in doing the right thing (investigating immediately)

                          Originally posted by JER View Post
                          What this points out is the gap between 'safe sport' and the law. The law specifically as it applies to adults who have inappropriate contact with minors.

                          If you are charged with and convicted of or plead guilty to child molestation, you are usually given conditions to abide by if you're still allowed out in the community. You have to stay away from certain things, you have to check in regularly, you have to submit DNA for CODIS, etc.

                          So when is molestation of a minor not molestation of a minor? When do we call it a crime and when do we apply the principals of 'safe sport'?

                          Sport organizations have harbored sexual predators for ages. USA Swimming and USA Gymnastics are probably the most notorious of the lot but it happens in many NFs. Ronda Rousey is a big MMA star now but when she was a teenage judoka, she single-handedly blew the whistle on a long time predator who was in a powerful position with her federation. She went after the federation publicly for allowing and enabling this guy to continue in his ways. Because she was a big name in US judo, the NF had to listen (and they fought her too, it was awful).

                          But improper sexual activity with a minor is a crime and should be treated as such.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's possible that law enforcement is investigating. It's also possible that witnesses were willing to talk to USEF/Safe Sport and not to law enforcement. Or that SafeSport has a lower burden of proof than a criminal investigation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One problem with banned support persons or coaches in sport orgs is that, when caught, they'll just drift into another sport and continue their ways. USA Gymnastics and Swimming shuffled coaches around much in the same way as the Catholic Church did with pedophile priests. If you were a parent with a kid in training with that coach, you'd have no way to know that he got removed from his last post due to inappropriate contact with minors.

                              So with SafeSport, you keep the behavior under the umbrella of that sport. There's nothing stopping that person from going to another sport and doing the same. His name might be on the safe sport list but he can try to explain it away as unfounded allegations from a crazy kid or family. Nothing will come up on his police/LE background check.

                              This is what concerns me, that SafeSport shunts people away from proper investigation and consequences and into a system that might allow them to continue on with their criminal activities. USEF kicks you out, not their problem where you go next.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                But my understanding is that it makes anyone who takes the training a mandated reporter (so any competing member of USEF.) This should, in theory, make people more likely to report since they are potentially criminally responsible if thy don't. "The Safe Sport Act expands the list of individuals required to report child sexual abuse. Now, it is any adult who is authorized to interact with youth athletes will be required to report suspicions of abuse to the appropriate law enforcement agencies within 24 hours."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by JER View Post
                                  One problem with banned support persons or coaches in sport orgs is that, when caught, they'll just drift into another sport and continue their ways. USA Gymnastics and Swimming shuffled coaches around much in the same way as the Catholic Church did with pedophile priests. If you were a parent with a kid in training with that coach, you'd have no way to know that he got removed from his last post due to inappropriate contact with minors.

                                  This is what concerns me, that SafeSport shunts people away from proper investigation and consequences and into a system that might allow them to continue on with their criminal activities. USEF kicks you out, not their problem where you go next.
                                  I understood that Safe Sport was the one that "kicks you out" of your NF, and that you are banned from any sport under their jurisdiction. They just name the sport in which the person was participating when they violated the rules.
                                  Granted there was a lot of material on their site and a lot of jargon but that was my understanding.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    When do you report someone or something to the organization, and when do you just call the police?

                                    I think organizations in general struggle with that - any organization, not just sports. I've seen the same problem of 'keeping it in the group' in churches, charity organization and even the workplace. I have seen it with simple thievery, and even a con artist who was working his way through a group. Someone is caught red-handed stealing valuable stuff, or defrauding other members of money, but the police aren't called ($thousands worth, not small stuff). Sexual misconduct is too often right there in the same boat. What is actually done disappears behind a curtain of vagueness.

                                    There is some human instinct that groups, and people who belong to a group, seem to prefer to keep it within the group, and hidden even from the group itself. Even when hindsight clearly shows that this defies all logic. There is some misplaced desire not to cause embarrassment, not to fracture the group, and to attempt to maintain a comfortable status quo, even at the expense of the victim, even when it enables a predator to find new victims. Maybe well-intentioned organizational leaders have a hard time giving up the hope that the predator will just stop.

                                    Penn State got this absolutely wrong when an eyewitness to what was clearly the anal rape of a minor boy did not call 911 immediately, but instead waited until the following day to report it to higher authorities, and left it at that. The higher authorities didn't call the police, either. They did as close to nothing as they possibly could.

                                    The gymnast doctor actually was reported to the police more than once. Each time the police investigated, but were taken in by the doctor misrepresenting what he was doing as therapeutically valid. It wasn't, as other doctors in the field could have told the police, had they asked.

                                    So it stays under cover until someone goes public with it ... and since early 2018 at least, then finally the dominoes come crashing down. And maybe that is why people will now out someone on FB and other social media without relying on just the organization and law enforcement.

                                    A big problem for groups today is the backlog of bad actors who operated for years prior to #metoo, under the correct assumption that they could teflon their way around consequences - until now. But who can't undo the harm they have already done. And who have multiple victims still out there, and will for the rest of their lives. And some who just don't seem to be able to stop even now.

                                    Speaking generally. Not about anyone in particular.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by groom View Post

                                      They do, and are checking lists for competitors (and officials). How can they possibly know who is in the audience?
                                      But the fallacy to this is that this is a small community, and people DO know who is among the spectators. The spectator areas aren't so large that people won't spot people they recognize.

                                      Of course they will find out that Whosit is there. Someone will spot him/her. Heck, they even post about it in COTH threads, "Whosit was in the audience, aren't they banned ??? "

                                      Comment

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