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Showing someone elses horse makes you a professional?

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  • Showing someone elses horse makes you a professional?

    recently I heard that if you take money for training or showing from somebody else, it makes you a professional which means you must show at professional levels. Is this true? Ive been in horses for a while and never heard this

  • #2
    Originally posted by irishone View Post
    recently I heard that if you take money for training or showing from somebody else, it makes you a professional which means you must show at professional levels. Is this true? Ive been in horses for a while and never heard this
    Depends on what the governing body is.

    But generally anyone who is paid to ride (either training or showing) is no longer an amateur and must relinquish their amateur card and show as a professional/in the open classes.

    It's a matter of honor what said person does at unrated shows. But yes, if you get paid to ride, that is the literal definition of being a professional rider.

    This really only matters at championships in Eventing - most events in my area don't split and you are instead required to enter the correct rider/horse/open division according to the rider/horse's competition record.
    Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
    you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

    Comment


    • #3
      Also for most disciplines this doesn't apply to juniors, only to adult riders. All juniors compete together. Adults are split into Amateur and Open. Amateur is only for amateurs. Both professionals and amatuers can go in Open.

      Each governing body will have its own definition of amatuer and professional in its rules.

      Comment


      • #4
        I do want to differentiate though. Your question in the title of the thread does not affect your 'amateur' status. So if your friend said, "Hey, your horse is injured want to compete my horse instead?" Sure. You can do this and it would not affect your ammy/pro status. Same when you are leasing a horse or riding a lesson horse in a competition.
        However, if your friend says, "Hey, you are a good rider, will you ride, trail ride, compete, or sit on, Horse for $25, a new bridle from my online tack store, or for free rent?" Then this would affect your 'amateur status.' Now is anyone going to report you if you ride friend's horse one week while she's gone and she reimburses you with a bottle of wine ? Probably not. But, after you age-out any type of remuneration for your services (other than selling your personal horses) discredits you from competing in amateur-type divisions at the USEF/USEA/USDF, and several local-level associations. It has no basis on the level of competency you have as a rider/trainer, it is only based on remuneration received.

        Comment


        • #5
          USEF Amateur Rule

          GR1306 Professional/Amateur Status

          1. Amateur. Regardless of one’s equestrian skills and/or accomplishments, a person is an amateur if after his 18th birthday, as defined in GR101, he has not engaged in any of the activities identified in paragraph 4 below.
          a. In the Dressage Division, individuals are only eligible to compete as amateurs from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach age 22, see DR119.3.
          b. For Amateurs in Jumper Sections, see JP118.
          c. For Amateurs in Hunter Sections, see HU107-HU108.
          d. For Amateurs in Eventing, see EV Appendix 3-Participation in Horse Trials.

          2. Remuneration. Remuneration is defined as compensation or payment in any form such as cash, goods, sponsorships, discounts or services; reimbursement of any expenses; trade or in-kind exchange of goods or services such as board or training.

          3. Permitted activities by Amateur. An Amateur is permitted to do the following:
          a. Accept reimbursement for actual expenses associated with conducting classroom seminars for a not-for-profit organization, therapeutic riding programs, or programs for charitable organizations approved in advance by the Federation.
          b. Act as a camp counselor when not hired in the exclusive capacity as a riding instructor; assist in setting schooling fences without remuneration; give instruction or training to handicapped riders for therapeutic purposes.
          c. Appear in advertisements and/or articles related to acknowledgement of one’s own personal or business sponsorship of a competition and/or awards earned by one’s owned horses.
          d. Accept prize money as the owner of a horse in any class other than equitation or showmanship classes.
          e. Accept prize money in Dressage.
          f. Accept a non-monetary token gift of appreciation valued less than $300 annually.
          g. Serve as an intern for college credit or course requirements at an accredited institution provided one has never held professional status with the Federation or any other equestrian National Federation. In addition, one may accept reimbursement for expenses without profit, as prescribed by the educational institution’s program, for the internship. At the request of the Federation, an Amateur shall provide certification from the accredited educational institution under whose auspices a student is pursuing an internship that he is undertaking the internship to meet course or degree requirements.
          1. In the Hackney, Roadster, American Saddlebred, Saddle Seat Equitation, Morgan, Andalusian/Lusitano, Friesian, Arabian, and National Show Horse Divisions, college students may also accept a stipend (maximum value of the Federal minimum wage rate) and reimbursement of expenses during the internship served under the above paragraph.
          2. In the Hackney, Roadster, American Saddlebred, Saddle Seat Equitation divisions: If a college student serving as an intern exhibits a horse trained by the stable at which they are pursing the internship, the intern shall only exhibit those horses solely owned by: the intern, the intern’s family as defined by GR123, the college at which they are a student, or the stable where they are pursuing their internship. The intern shall not exhibit horses owned/leased nor co-owned by the stables’ client(s). BOD 1/20/18 Effective 2/1/18

          h. Write books or articles related to horses.
          i. Accept remuneration for providing service in one’s capacity as a: clinic manager or organizer (so long as they are not performing the activities of instructor or trainer), presenter or panelist at a Federation licensed officials’ clinic, competition manager, competition secretary, judge, steward, technical delegate, course designer, announcer, TV commentator, veterinarian, groom, farrier, tack shop operator, breeder, or boarder, or horse transporter. BOD 1/14/17 Effective 12/1/17
          j. Accept reimbursement for any bona fide expenses directly related to the horse (i.e. farrier/vet bills, entries). Travel, hotel, equipment, and room and board are not considered bona fide expenses.
          k. Entries for non-under saddle classes in amateur sections at hunter, jumper or hunter/jumper competitions, must be paid either (i) directly to the competition by the Amateur or by the Amateur’s family or (ii) by someone whom the Amateur or the Amateur’s family reimburses within 90 days of the last day of the competition for which entries were paid.
          l. Accept educational competition or training grant(s).

          4. Professional based on one’s own activities. Unless expressly permitted above, a person is a professional if after his 18th birthday he does any of the following:
          a. Accepts remuneration AND rides, exercises, drives, shows, trains, assists in training, schools or conducts clinics or seminars.
          b. Accepts remuneration AND gives riding or driving lessons, showmanship lessons, equitation lessons, trains horses, or provides consultation services in riding, driving, showmanship, equitation, or training of horses.
          c. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an employee in a position such as a groom, farrier, bookkeeper, veterinarian or barn manager AND instructs, rides, drives, shows, trains or schools horses that are owned, boarded or trained by his employer, any member of his employer’s family, or a business in which his employer has an ownership interest.
          d. Accepts remuneration AND uses his name, photograph or other form of personal association as a horseperson in connection with any advertisement or product/service for sale, including but not limited to apparel, equipment or property. e. Accepts prize money unless permitted in paragraph 3d or 3e above.
          f. Rides, drives or shows any horse that a cohabitant or family member or a cohabitant or family member’s business receives remuneration for boarding, training, riding, driving or showing. A cohabitant or family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer.
          g. Gives instruction to any person or rides, drives, or shows any horse, for which activity his cohabitant or another person in his family or business in which his cohabitant or a family member controls will receive remuneration for the activity. A cohabitant or family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer.
          h. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an agent in the sale of a horse or pony or accepts a horse or pony on consignment for the purpose of sale or training that is not owned by him, his cohabitant, or a member of his family, a farm/ranch/syndicate/partnership/corporation/business in which he, his cohabitant or a member of his family controls.
          i. Advertises one’s equestrian services such as training or instruction.
          j. Accepts remuneration AND acts as an intern, apprentice, or working student whose responsibilities include, but are not limited to, riding, driving, showmanship, handling, showing, training or assisting in training, giving lessons/coaching and/or schooling horses other than horses actually owned by him.
          k. Accepts remuneration in excess of rental fee for use of a facility, ring or school horses.
          l. Accepts remuneration for such use AND uses commercial logoed items while on competition grounds unless expressly permitted by applicable division rules.

          5. Professional based on one’s own activity along with another’s. A person is also deemed a professional after his 18th birthday, if he accepts remuneration for his spouse, family member, or cohabitant engaging in any activity enumerated in 4 a-l above. For the purposes of this rule, the term cohabitant is defined as any individuals living together in a relationship, as would a married couple, but not legally married.

          6. Violations of Amateur status. After an investigation as to proper status has been initiated, and upon request by the Federation and to the satisfaction of the Federation, an Amateur shall submit verifiable proof of Amateur status, including but not limited to a bill of sale for any horse(s) the Amateur is competing in classes restricted to Amateur Owners. If the Federation deems such proof insufficient, then the Federation may initiate proceedings under Chapter 6. a. Any individual found to have knowingly assisted in the violation of the Amateur rule may also be subject to proceedings in accordance with Chapter 6. See GR1307.

          7. Questions about whether you are an Amateur or Professional. For specific inquiries, email amateurinquiry@usef.org.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by irishone View Post
            recently I heard that if you take money for training or showing from somebody else, it makes you a professional which means you must show at professional levels. Is this true? Ive been in horses for a while and never heard this
            This is literally the definition of professional status (bolding mine)
            Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

            The Grove at Five Points

            Comment


            • #7
              Years ago when I wrote extensively for equestrian publications and sold as many photos of horses as I could get anyone to buy, I had to declare myself a professional ---no big deal since I didn't show that much--actually felt it was kind of cool to list myself as professional when all I did was write about horses and take their pictures. Unfortunately for me, the hard-copy horse magazine industry has nearly died out. Everything is electronic these days. I once made about 1K a month with articles and photographs (developed in my own darkroom) --nice little addition to the horse fund! Now-a-days I occasionally run into something I've written, or a picture I've taken on-line. Usually credit is given --but if not, I post my name, say I wrote it or took it, and ask that I be recognized as the author. And once every few years (been awhile now), I'll get a tiny royalty check for some generic horse picture someone's used . . .that's nice.

              Comment


              • #8
                It may not matter as much in eventing, but once you are a professional with USEF you are considered a professional in every discipline. Which DOES matter quite a bit in jumper land. So if I take up reining, which I have NEVER done in my entire life, I am a pro reiner. Just something to think about.
                www.canterusa.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Foxglove View Post
                  Years ago when I wrote extensively for equestrian publications and sold as many photos of horses as I could get anyone to buy, I had to declare myself a professional ---no big deal since I didn't show that much--actually felt it was kind of cool to list myself as professional when all I did was write about horses and take their pictures.
                  Really? But GR1306.3(h) specifically says that amateurs are permitted to "Write books or articles related to horses." I wonder if that was added more recently?
                  Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Libby2563 View Post

                    Really? But GR1306.3(h) specifically says that amateurs are permitted to "Write books or articles related to horses." I wonder if that was added more recently?
                    Me too....that’s not even touching a horse let alone improving it. Had a friend photographer who competed decades ago as an Amatuer in the Arabs under AHSA rules. She won a lot, if it was questionable she would have been protested.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I know even in the western world it's the same issue. I have very close friends of mine who regularly stay in the top 10 in extreme cowboy challenge rankings and will NOT train or coach anyone for the same risks of have to be classified as professionals.
                      http://www.akcanadianhorses.ca/blog

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Going from memory and too lazy to look up any thing definitive, the rule at the time was if one made 10% or more of his or her income from "the horse industry." Since I was pretty close to that, I listed myself as a professional . . .maybe I didn't have to, but I did.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Foxglove View Post
                          Going from memory and too lazy to look up any thing definitive, the rule at the time was if one made 10% or more of his or her income from "the horse industry." Since I was pretty close to that, I listed myself as a professional . . .maybe I didn't have to, but I did.
                          That was a LONG time ago (like 50 years!) and didn't last very long, because it was unenforceable without access to tax returns, etc.
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

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