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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

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Save Polaris

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  • Save Polaris


    <removed link to GoFundMe page>

    There is a GFM set up to help Sara Gumbiner buy Polaris. Apparently she didn't own him outright and has had some issues with partners.
    Last edited by BigMick; Jul. 6, 2018, 02:27 PM. Reason: Removed GoFundMe link - sorry if that was against the rules!

  • #2
    [Edit]

    Well, if all it takes is a GoFund Me to keep an UL horse....maybe thats where I will be going next.

    Do these riders not have business plans? Contingency plans? Contracts?

    Also, I think posting the link to the GoFund me is against forum rules but not certain.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Jul. 12, 2018, 07:10 AM. Reason: Quote with GFM link

    Comment


    • #3
      I feel for her, it would be terrible to lose the horse you put this much effort into and came up the levels with. However, the part of the story pasted below makes clear that she missed the opportunity to head this off when they embarked on this co-ownership situation -- hopefully more riders will learn from these situations and draw up the paperwork on the front end to protect their sweat-equity. Hope for the best, but always prepare for the worst! Assurances don't do anything for you if you don't have it in writing and signed!

      In the wake of Ann’s death, it became clear to me that I needed to come up with a plan for Polaris—quickly. A longtime client offered to support us. I jumped at the opportunity, since the alternative was losing Polaris, aka Larry, and all the progress we had fought so hard for. We agreed that we would own him together, and she assured me that she never wanted me to lose my heart horse again. My investment of seven years’ blood, sweat, and tears would be my share in this partnership. Obviously this arrangement has not worked out.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

        Also, I think posting the link to the GoFund me is against forum rules but not certain.
        Thanks, I removed the link in my OP. Sorry, Mods! Didn't mean to violate any rules.

        Comment


        • #5
          Umm, well, it's not exactly about saving the horse, is it? It's about saving her ride on the horse.

          ETA what in the world is she talking about? I wasn't familiar with her name but the horse's was familiar, so I surfed them up on USEA to see, and looks like she's had the ride for a couple of years, and that before that someone else had him for ages and brought him up the levels. So why's she talking about 7 years? At a minimum she needs an editor.
          Last edited by Saskatoonian; Jul. 6, 2018, 03:41 PM. Reason: ok, now I'm really confused.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Saskatoonian View Post
            Umm, well, it's not exactly about saving the horse, is it? It's about saving her ride on the horse.

            ETA what in the world is she talking about? I wasn't familiar with her name but the horse's was familiar, so I surfed them up on USEA to see, and looks like she's had the ride for a couple of years, and that before that someone else had him for ages and brought him up the levels. So why's she talking about 7 years? At a minimum she needs an editor.
            At minimum, you need to do a bit more research before you tell someone to get an editor on a public forum:

            http://eventingnation.com/sara-gumbi...-with-polaris/

            Sara is a super kind soul and a great rider. I met her years ago at Richland Horse Trials and was impressed. Contribute if you want to, if not, no negativity required from the peanut gallery.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, you're more than welcome to disagree, but I stand by the comment that she needs an editor. Not my circus, though. I don't really care: I'm not asking the public for money so I can keep my horse.

              Did she change her name? That could explain the discrepancy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Halfhalt08 View Post

                At minimum, you need to do a bit more research before you tell someone to get an editor on a public forum:

                http://eventingnation.com/sara-gumbi...-with-polaris/

                Sara is a super kind soul and a great rider. I met her years ago at Richland Horse Trials and was impressed. Contribute if you want to, if not, no negativity required from the peanut gallery.
                Just like people can contribute or not - we can also have a positive or negative or neutral opinion and are free to discuss it on this board.

                It really is starting to beg the question though if these riders are getting their ducks in order, or if they have any sort of business savy as they aim for the top. If your livelihood relies on you competing on a certain horse at a certain level, one would think you would have your bases covered as best you could to keep the arrangement. If it goes south well, thats the way of the sport. People have been losing their rides for decades.

                I also think being super kind and a good rider does not equal good business skills.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Saskatoonian View Post
                  Did she change her name? That could explain the discrepancy.
                  Not sure what discrepancy you are seeing but if you look at the FEI record for Polaris, it shows Sara bringing him up the levels as described, other than one event with Boyd https://www.fei.org/horse/103SU52/Polaris

                  People get burned by trusting other people and assuming things will be fine. Riders need to protect themselves, even well-intentioned supporters can have changes in circumstance that force financial changes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kind of interesting and pointless, but the cost for all his competitions he has done with her at FEI is about equal to what she is trying to raise to buy him.

                    Note to riders = compete less and save more for these occasions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, she she was married for a while so her name changed for a couple of years. I know the whole story and she really got screwed by the co-owner. She (the previous co-owner) is a predator and hopefully everything will come out. This situation went up to the owner's liaison at USEA before it finally got settled.

                      That's not to say that Sara handled everything perfectly. When Anne died and she needed a partner to buy out the husbands share, everything happened so fast that she panicked and the contract wasn't written as clearly as it should have been.

                      When the new co-owner wanted out she made unreasonable demands. Sara didn't want to have to go to court so agreed to pay what was essentially an extortion fee.

                      But she is much wiser from this unfortunate experience, although I'm very sorry she had to go through this awful ordeal.

                      So she set up something so that people who want to support her can help her out so that she can get back on good financial footing. Those who don't can carry on.
                      Last edited by kcmel; Jul. 6, 2018, 08:18 PM. Reason: Clarity

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                        Kind of interesting and pointless, but the cost for all his competitions he has done with her at FEI is about equal to what she is trying to raise to buy him.

                        Note to riders = compete less and save more for these occasions.
                        Anne the original owner paid all the cost to compete him.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          GoFundMe fatigue is setting in.

                          I start to reach for my violin when I hear a 'professional' go on about 'losing my heart horse'.

                          I'm a terrible violinist.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Madison View Post

                            Not sure what discrepancy you are seeing.
                            The USEA database shows him competed by someone with a last name other than Gumbiner for several years. I didn't look at FEI because, again, I don't really care. Just was trying to figure out why the horse's name was familiar so scrolled through the riders. The combination of that discrepancy and the strange rambling explanation of the situation on the GFM page didn't exactly inspire confidence over here. YMMV.

                            To be clear, I don't know her at all and don't suggest she's not a nice person or a good horse person. All I've got to go by is what she put on the GFM.


                            Last edited by Saskatoonian; Jul. 6, 2018, 05:09 PM. Reason: ETA just to be clear

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                              Just like people can contribute or not - we can also have a positive or negative or neutral opinion and are free to discuss it on this board.

                              It really is starting to beg the question though if these riders are getting their ducks in order, or if they have any sort of business savy as they aim for the top. If your livelihood relies on you competing on a certain horse at a certain level, one would think you would have your bases covered as best you could to keep the arrangement. If it goes south well, thats the way of the sport. People have been losing their rides for decades.

                              I also think being super kind and a good rider does not equal good business skills.
                              It seems as though many riders have ZERO business savvy. I'm sorry if she loses her ride but didn't she learn her lesson after the first owner died? A perfect wakeup call to get everything in writing the second time around. And you are right, being a nice person and a good rider has nothing to do with good business skills. If riders don't start developing solid business skills then these sad situations will continue.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I want someone to contribute to a GoFundMe so I can have a fancy horse to compete. Alas, that will not happen because I would never ask for handouts, regardless if I was a pro or not. It is just distasteful IMHO. Instead I trained my mustang from the ground up, and will be happy to compete her at local schooling shows, all within my budget and my means.

                                The death of the first owner should have been a wake up call. Getting everything in writing is simply common sense.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by fordtraktor

                                  this makes no sense at all, you would be better if to delete if as it raises more questions than answers. I hope she secures the horse.
                                  Well you've already quoted me so it wouldn't help!

                                  I edited my original post to hopefully make it more clear.

                                  As far as learning a lesson when the first owner died, this was all part of the aftermath of that tragic event.

                                  I understand how it comes across as an outsider looking in. But many people who know Sara and Larry wanted to help, and the GoFundMe seemed like the best way to go.

                                  There's a cool podcast on Major League Eventing if anyone wants to learn more about Sara. It was done before this all happened.

                                  Last edited by kcmel; Jul. 6, 2018, 08:36 PM. Reason: clarity

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If you have EVER handled horses for owners, you KNOW that people change their minds - at times pretty rudely and inconvinently - and OFTEN break their word, break contracts, threaten the rider/trainer, extort and cheat and do just about everything they can to make the expenses of a horse YOUR FAULT and not theirs. In addition, many MANY MANY owners have a pie in the sky idea that they are going to make money - regardless of how many times you as the trainer and the owner have warned them it is not probable - and BLAME YOU when it's not going their way. Having an ironclad contract or sales agreement or even a simple, uncomplicated training and boarding agreement is certainly ideal -- but I don't know ANYONE who has one that has really worked for them when the owner wanted out. If the owner decided to steal the horse and leave with it, they tried it. If the owner decided they weren't going to pay you what they owed you anymore, they just walked away. It goes on and on. To have a good owner is a like hitting the lottery. They are rare. I would not stand up and castigate ANY rider or trainer for something an owner did to them, contract or no. Because I've been there and been lied to and been left holding THOUSANDS of dollars in bills and had little to no recourse that didn't cost as much as the bill; so if you don't have a Rolex horse in your barn please don't make up nonsense about contracts and ironclad and crap - trust me there is no such thing in the real trainer/owner world.....
                                    Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                    Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post
                                      if you don't have a Rolex horse in your barn please don't make up nonsense about contracts and ironclad and crap - trust me there is no such thing in the real trainer/owner world.....
                                      Oh you’re back to tell us to shut up AGAIN because we aren’t 4* riders. So bored of hearing that.

                                      Contracts are essential and useful in every business agreement. Rider and owner is no different. Perhaps people have issues because they don’t have good contracts.

                                      But if nothing is ever set in stone, then perhaps riders need to try and save some money or buy their own horses so they can avoid these things in the future.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        It's not just about buying the horse, but in coming up with the funds to pursue FEI level competition. For many people, they can't do it without sponsors, generous owners, or a barn full of clients to train, or some other source of income.

                                        I've met Sara and think she's a nice person. I heard first hand how she found Polaris, so I don't know where people got the idea someone else brought him up the levels.

                                        Comment

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