• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Number of horses that finish a 100 miler (Tevis normal?)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Hm yes - that's true. Lame could mean anything. And there doesn't seem to be much incentive to win at the cost of laming your horse.
    ----------------------------------------
    PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum
    http://pssm.xanthoria.com/
    ----------------------------------------

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
      Hm yes - that's true. Lame could mean anything. And there doesn't seem to be much incentive to win at the cost of laming your horse.
      There should be no incentive on earth that is worth winning at the cost of laming your horse.
      RIP Victor... I'll miss you, you big galumph.

      Comment


      • #23
        I helped crew for three riders. One top tenned. The other 2 were pulled. One for lameness, one metabolic. All these horses train together, should have been in great shape, but it happens, and the bad day was caught early by the vet. The metabolic needed some support, but looked chipper and no issues by morning. The lameness was very slight, but no heat or swelling, they were going to give it a few days. All the vets and people I saw (there is an entire barn devoted to injured/ill/recovering horses) the horses were always the top concern.

        I know I have personally been on a trail ride, trotting along, and my horse takes some funky steps. I've gotten off, walked him home, and he's looked a little off. The next day he's running around. Whack to the hoof, bruise, small strain, so many things can happen.

        I also think a horse can go home from a show, and then turn up lame, or tie-up, or anything like that. None of that is recorded, because they're off the clock. These endurance horses are never off the clock until they are cleared by the vet, which seemed to me very safe.

        Tevis and other rides are pushing the limits. But with as many safety precautions as can be had at an event. I saw some riders that looked like they needed to be vetted!
        "Do your best, and leave the rest, twill all come right, some day or night" -Black Beauty

        http://trails-and-trials-with-major.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #24
          Tevis isn't even the hardest 100miler in America. It's just the most famous, partly because of Courgar Rock. Old Dominion is said to be harder than Tevis, and I believe the hardest 100 mile ride we have.
          ******************************
          www.trying2event.blogspot.com
          www.facebook.com/UltimateStormLARigsby

          Comment


          • #25
            I dont think that being sore is considered normal and although I guess the official requirement for being pullled is a Grade 3?? (honestly I dont know- all of the times that my horse has been any grade of lameness, I've pulled) but in reality, if your horse is a Grade 1 or 2 and you know that you have dozens more miles to go of an extremely difficult trail, I cant imagine continuing on. Like I said in my above post, the trail is so rough that so many things can go wrong, but I would be willing to bet that most of the lamenesses are minor and resolve quickly with no treatment. I dont think that there are many bowed tendons or suspensories or anything like that.
            I've done AERC rides for over 10 years. I think I have about 5 lameness pulls in about 50 starts. None of those were serious- I remember one was from stepping on a rock, one was a muscle cramp and the others were mysteries. I actually think that endurance horses are extremely sound animals because they absolutely have to be- you are not going to head out there on a questionable one. Pretty much all of the rides that we finished, I was amazed at how fantastic my horse looked afterward.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
              I saw that about 50% of the horses who started the Tevis Cup did not complete it. The vast majority for being lame or "metabolic."

              Is that normal for a 100 mile race?
              How lame is lame enough to be pulled?
              Similarly, what constitutes "metabolic" issues so bad you're not allowed to go on?
              This is normal for THIS ride. Sometimes the completion rate is much less. Just depends.

              Some riders get altitude sickness, or dehydration. Their horse is perfectly fine, but the rider is too ill to complete. So they pull. This is reflected in the completion rates. This is reflected in any and all endurance or LD rides. If the rider is hurt and can not continue, they pull. This is also reflected in the completion rates.

              Things happen, and not always to the horse.

              Metabolic: heart rate is too high and will not come down in the specified amount of time. And yes, I have seen the vets take temps on horses. Especially here in the SE region. Depends on the ride vet, and the ride.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Neigh-Neigh View Post
                Tevis isn't even the hardest 100miler in America. It's just the most famous, partly because of Courgar Rock. Old Dominion is said to be harder than Tevis, and I believe the hardest 100 mile ride we have.
                I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer--why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know
                My website

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by QacarXan View Post
                  I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer--why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know
                  I'm sure someone who's done the OD 100 will chime in, but my experience doing the 50 is that in addition to going up and down lots of steep hills (including a couple of straight-up-the-mountain singletracks that are several miles long), much of the trail is extremely rocky, with large, uneven rocks that make it difficult to travel at any sort of speed. The OD trails are notorious for "eating" shoes and hoof boots
                  RIP Victor... I'll miss you, you big galumph.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by BigHorseLittleHorse View Post
                    I'm sure someone who's done the OD 100 will chime in, but my experience doing the 50 is that in addition to going up and down lots of steep hills (including a couple of straight-up-the-mountain singletracks that are several miles long), much of the trail is extremely rocky, with large, uneven rocks that make it difficult to travel at any sort of speed. The OD trails are notorious for "eating" shoes and hoof boots
                    Thanks for the information! That makes a lot of sense.

                    I'm in Colorado for school, and people keep giving me the side-eye here when I tell them that Virginia's endurance riding is top notch, so now I can tell them about the OD too.

                    Does the heat have anything to do with it either? I know Tevis has had snow in the area during the ride, but isn't the OD in June? Virginia heat can be something.
                    My website

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by QacarXan View Post
                      Does the heat have anything to do with it either? I know Tevis has had snow in the area during the ride, but isn't the OD in June? Virginia heat can be something.
                      Depending on the year, yes. This year wasn't bad at all (low 80s), but others have been very hot and humid.
                      RIP Victor... I'll miss you, you big galumph.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                        Yeah I looked up Tevis stats just now and the organizers say "From 1955 through 2011, there have been 9,278 starting entries, of which 5,066 (54.6%) finished."

                        That's a really low figure, seems like! 46% of horses injured etc per competition?


                        Some riders pull because a horse loses a shoe, and are getting footsore - not lame.. but getting there.
                        Som riders have a fall - they pull. nothing wrong with the horse.
                        and yep some horses pull due to health issues.

                        Tevis is tough.
                        I've ridden it (more then once)
                        1 pulled once myself because my horse was NQR, - not lame/ not metabolic, but he didn't feel right to me, so we quit. as a purely retarded reason why I had no completion - I was being overly paranoid!

                        Had a vet check him out, never did find anything - but there are endurance riders like that - we won't risk our horse just to win - (at least the main core group of NA riders won't - the ones that stick around for years.)

                        Im unsure what you are fishing for, call me suspicious but all your posts seem to be 'angling' towards something. but I'll play.

                        endurance is/can be a fun casual sport, or an extreme one, depending on what caliber of endurance rider you hang with - just like your adult casual schooling show dressage rider is a lot less extreme that your heading to the olympics rider.

                        To that end, Tevis is one of the extremes - its one of those ultimate tough rides that endurance riders dream of completing - it's been considered one of the pinnacles of the sport for well.. ever.

                        and if you wished to educate yourself further - spend some time researching what horses/riders need to accomplish to even show up at Tevis base camp - along with how many of those rider/horse combinations have been at Tevis multiple times, vs their completions/pulls, and and how many other rides/mileages they've finished/pulled at -- and you might get a better picture of whatever theory is that you are testing.
                        Originally posted by ExJumper
                        Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I wish horse shows had vets that would pull nqr horses. I've seen way too many gimpy dressage horses. Endurance rides have excellent vets and ride management.
                          Hillary Rodham Clinton - the peoples choice for president.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by QacarXan View Post
                            I just had a quick question that probably needs a long answer--why is the Old Dominion the hardest? A patriotic Virginian wants to know
                            Because John Crandell said so.
                            ******************************
                            www.trying2event.blogspot.com
                            www.facebook.com/UltimateStormLARigsby

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I rode 50 miles of Tevis this year. It was my first try and I trailered my horse 3 days to get there. My horse was doing great and we were cleared at Last Chance (50 miles). I left the check on schedule but my horse was a little off so I returned to the check and pulled her. This will show as Rider Option but she was lame (slightly). The vets can't pull me in this situation, I have to self-pull. There was no way I was taking her the next 5 miles down and up a canyon though. The terrain is one of the toughest in NA which accounts for the lower completion rate. I don't know what was wrong with my horse and she was fine the next day. Most lamenesses at endurance rides are very mild and caught early. This was also my horse's first pull in 700 competition miles so it was a tough ride.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Were ALL the entries for the 100 miles or were there shorter distances in the mix?

                                % completion very much depends on the terrain. You would not ride the Tevis at the same speed as the riders in the desert in Dubhai, but I'm sure that there are tracks in the USA that could be ridden pretty fast.

                                And yes experience is a huge factor both for the horse and rider - that's why long time combinations do well - the horse knows the drill, and the rider understands and supports it.

                                Don't forget though, that every horse starts out doing nice slow short rides, and builds distance up over the years. Most horses will only do one or two 100 milers a year.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Xanthoria View Post
                                  Hm, those are your words in quotes, not mine.

                                  I was just surprised to learn all this stuff. I know someone who completed Tevis this year with a horse in no doubt fine shape knowing how well he cares for her. It doesn't feel good though to hear that 20% of the horses ended up lame.

                                  I also don't think its unfair to compare this to other horse sports - why should it be OK for one sport to have a high injury rate, just because it doesn't take place in an arena? And racing disproves that anyway - high injury rate, well groomed tracks. Still saddening.

                                  Anyway, I just wanted to find out if this was a normal rate of completions for that race, and looking back on past Tevis results I see that it is.
                                  Since it is apparent you don't know much about the sport, I need to point out that the pull criteira is whether the horse is "fit to continue."

                                  That doesn't mean the horse is dead lame...he could be just abit off (sometimes from fatigue) or his gut sounds suppressed or whatever and the vet is thinking this horse is NOT "fit to continue." So he's pulled.

                                  The next day the horse could be perfectly fine -- and many of them (most, actually) are. The trails are not littered with fallen horses.

                                  You need to learn more about the sport.

                                  As far as Europe, it is pretty much known that the Tevis is one (if not THE) toughest rides in the world...plenty of riders come from all over the world to give it a try.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by BigHorseLittleHorse View Post
                                    I'm sure someone who's done the OD 100 will chime in, but my experience doing the 50 is that in addition to going up and down lots of steep hills (including a couple of straight-up-the-mountain singletracks that are several miles long), much of the trail is extremely rocky, with large, uneven rocks that make it difficult to travel at any sort of speed. The OD trails are notorious for "eating" shoes and hoof boots
                                    If you have ever ridden through the VA woods during one of their hot, VERY HIGH humidity summer days, you'd know why many consider it harder.

                                    I think alot depends on the day of the ride and the weather. Both are very tough rides.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X