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my kentucky mountain saddle horse is uncomfortable to ride

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  • #21
    Originally posted by allikat819 View Post
    This is absurd.

    I find that teaching the canter, which is a diagonally based greatly helps the gaited horse that might be on the pacey side.

    The only reason you MIGHT not want to canter, is if you have a speed racking horse (and most people don't), otherwise it's a very comfortable gait for both horse and rider.

    Follow Guilherme's advice. It is solid.
    Second this ^^. We canter and gallop ALL our Pasos periodically -- even the show horses and especially the young ones. While they are building muscles there is only so long you can ask them to hold the gait. Having said that, if you spend most of your time cantering you won't build gaiting muscles.

    Also have to say that most non-gaited farriers do not leave enough heel on the horses. It's not just a matter of toe length for breakover, but having enough heel and some are quite slow to grow heel. Very easy to 'just take a pass with the rasp' and undo months worth of hard-won growth. But prior posters are correct -- shoe the horse, not the gait.

    Not sure I entirely agree with the conformation comments, but that may be a breed-specific thing. I have a mare with a very peculiar conformation who gaits, gaits fino and can gait fino naturally for hours. I think it's less conformation than collection. We get a fair number of horses in for training where they are not gaiting because they are not travelling in a collected frame. If you do not engage the rear end, you don't get gait, at least with Pasos.

    Is there a breed group in your area that you can connect with? Someone who can help you shorten the forensic process?
    Last edited by BarbaricYawp; May. 11, 2012, 10:29 PM.

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    • #22
      I have a five gaited ASB who wore show shoes for the bulk of his life and agree heartily with G. Leave the feet alone. "Shoeing in the gait" may work but the long term effects aren't worth it.

      My gaited riding experience is TWH and Rocky mtn, and they do ride much better when collected. I am much more a believer in physical excercises and conditioning to help the horse gain good balance.
      Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
      Incredible Invisible

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      • #23
        I'm all with G on this one-video, pix and outside observers are invaluable... as is loping and working a gaited horse appropriatedly.

        that was great advice, G!
        “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

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        • #24
          When I bought my Arab, during his vetting, the Vet said he had slightly too long pasterns in the front, which was a show ring fault, but would make him very comfortable to ride. Combined with his mutton shoulder, apple butt, naturally upright head, and more upright hind pasterns he is the most comfortable horse I have ridden. And he is much more comfortable bareback than in any saddle. He is not a gaited horse, but the conformation makes him so smooth.
          (My farriers have all grumbled that he was hard to shoe because his front feet demanded a longer toe and had weird angles)

          Does he gait at liberty, in turnout?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by sorrelfilly721 View Post
            Again you miss the point. I didn't pay my farrier one extra dime for shoeing because I was not doing plantation shoes or big lick shoes. We're talking about an extra ounce or so, not a POUND. It doesn't cost one dime more and leaving a tiny bit more foot certainly does not make a horse lame. Clearly you have never had any experience with this or you would know.
            Yeah, I'm pretty ignorant (just having 25 years experience and being a DQP grad).

            As for missing points, what part of "buy a good horse and you'll have fewer problems than if you buy a snide" don't you understand?

            Any time you alter the native conformation of the foot you will change, usually for the worse, the rest of the body. The foot reflects what is going on in the rest of the body and when that is changed will alter what is going on the rest of the body. This is not my crazed ranting; it's equine biomechanics and such folks as Dr. Deb Bennett and Dr. Hillary Clayton have written clearly on this subject. I suggest you do some research in the area.

            Personally, I don't care that you do do what you want to with your horses. But when you post bunk you're gonna get some push back.

            G.
            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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            • #26
              I just picked up a lovely registered Missouri Foxtrotter mare for next to nothing because her former owner said she didn't gait. After a proper barefoot trim, and the right bit (went though several until we settled on the Wonder Bit which worked wonders!) and the proper riding technique she is a gaiting fool.

              My technique is to ride with constant but light contact,I have seen in described as enough tension as if you were holding a strawberry in each hand. No less, no more.

              With the contact is also slight leg pressure.

              If she starts getting trotty I reprimand her verbally and increase the pressure just a little but then quickly release.

              I have also read and heard from others that you WALK a million miles with the contact and leg pressure before you ever ask for the gait.

              OTOH some gaited horses just can't gait.

              Unless you are in the show ring I cringe to hear shoes as a solution to a non gaiting horse. In the show ring they want the animation that only shoes can give (which is why we don't show at gaited shows).

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                Yeah, I'm pretty ignorant (just having 25 years experience and being a DQP grad).

                As for missing points, what part of "buy a good horse and you'll have fewer problems than if you buy a snide" don't you understand?

                Any time you alter the native conformation of the foot you will change, usually for the worse, the rest of the body. The foot reflects what is going on in the rest of the body and when that is changed will alter what is going on the rest of the body. This is not my crazed ranting; it's equine biomechanics and such folks as Dr. Deb Bennett and Dr. Hillary Clayton have written clearly on this subject. I suggest you do some research in the area.

                Personally, I don't care that you do do what you want to with your horses. But when you post bunk you're gonna get some push back.

                G.
                You are a bit of an extremest aren't you?? I've had zillions of DQP's look at my horses. None of them were ever lame and none of them are lame now. My walking horses did pleasure, jumped 3 feet, ran barrels, did reining, etc. All with a little extra foot up front. Like I said before, not all of us can afford to buy a horse who gaits naturally and some of us can't afford to buy one with an inclination. If you can get em to gait without any shoes on at all, God Bless. My mom's horse is one of those. If you can't, putting shoes on the front and leaving the front feet a little longer is a simple, harmless alternative. If you were a DQP like you say, you would know that too. Push back all you want. We have a 20 year old walker sound as a dollar who was trimmed and shoed this way his entire life. The OP asked for answers and this is mine. It works and it's harmless. I have several "sound all their life" horses to prove it. I really don't care whether YOU buy it or not.
                Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it, and created the horse. Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword, O, Horse!
                Anonymous Bedouin legend

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by sorrelfilly721 View Post
                  You are a bit of an extremest aren't you?? I've had zillions of DQP's look at my horses. None of them were ever lame and none of them are lame now. My walking horses did pleasure, jumped 3 feet, ran barrels, did reining, etc. All with a little extra foot up front. Like I said before, not all of us can afford to buy a horse who gaits naturally and some of us can't afford to buy one with an inclination. If you can get em to gait without any shoes on at all, God Bless. My mom's horse is one of those. If you can't, putting shoes on the front and leaving the front feet a little longer is a simple, harmless alternative. If you were a DQP like you say, you would know that too. Push back all you want. We have a 20 year old walker sound as a dollar who was trimmed and shoed this way his entire life. The OP asked for answers and this is mine. It works and it's harmless. I have several "sound all their life" horses to prove it. I really don't care whether YOU buy it or not.
                  Gee, how many zeros in a "zillion?"

                  Whether or not you "buy" anything I say is irelevant. You've posted bunk. You should get called on it. End of story.

                  G.
                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I shod Plantation Walkers for years, showing, and inspected by DQP's.

                    Theres a lot to be said for proper shoeing for proper use. There were designated lengths for the toe, the heel height, the shoes had to be exactly the same for each class, (toe weights), and angles..This made each horse equal in order to judge gait.

                    And proper riding technique.

                    Its not that hard.

                    Proper shoeing is always the place to start.
                    I think I read someone suggesting you find a gaiting club in your area and work among those who have experience in this field.
                    IN GOD WE TRUST
                    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
                    http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680

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                    • #30
                      Your post describes what is currently wrong with Walkers and training. I assume that these links below describe your plantation shoes. Even though you weren't using big-lick stacks, you were still "nailing on the gait" with the heavy shoe. Yes, there was still some training involved, but the bulk of the gait comes from the shoe.

                      The problem with using shoes to fix a gait is that breeders stop trying to breed horses with natural gaits since they assume you can just put on a heavy shoe to fix the problem.

                      http://www.wisconsinwalkinghorse.org...s/shoeson.html

                      http://en.allexperts.com/q/Farriers-...lker-Shoes.htm

                      I agree with the gaiting club, assuming its members know anything about gaiting. They can probably point you to a trainer.

                      Originally posted by brightskyfarm View Post
                      I shod Plantation Walkers for years, showing, and inspected by DQP's.

                      Theres a lot to be said for proper shoeing for proper use. There were designated lengths for the toe, the heel height, the shoes had to be exactly the same for each class, (toe weights), and angles..This made each horse equal in order to judge gait.

                      And proper riding technique.

                      Its not that hard.

                      Proper shoeing is always the place to start.
                      I think I read someone suggesting you find a gaiting club in your area and work among those who have experience in this field.
                      In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE

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                      • #31
                        It is just a horse with another gear. She needs to understand how to respond to asking her to collect just.a little up front, along with pushing harder from behind ...KMH are rackers---you may not get a RW out of her...any trainer -if they will try- should be able to help you encourage the 'biggest' walk the mare can offer-betweeEn her walk and her trot or pace...right in there is where that gear is--carving it and shaping it takes months-not days, not shoes, not saddles oor bits...

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Texas Mule Girl View Post
                          I just picked up a lovely registered Missouri Foxtrotter mare for next to nothing because her former owner said she didn't gait. After a proper barefoot trim, and the right bit (went though several until we settled on the Wonder Bit which worked wonders!) and the proper riding technique she is a gaiting fool.

                          My technique is to ride with constant but light contact,I have seen in described as enough tension as if you were holding a strawberry in each hand. No less, no more.

                          With the contact is also slight leg pressure.

                          If she starts getting trotty I reprimand her verbally and increase the pressure just a little but then quickly release.

                          I have also read and heard from others that you WALK a million miles with the contact and leg pressure before you ever ask for the gait.

                          OTOH some gaited horses just can't gait.

                          Unless you are in the show ring I cringe to hear shoes as a solution to a non gaiting horse. In the show ring they want the animation that only shoes can give (which is why we don't show at gaited shows).
                          I am now an owner of a TWH and a RMH...both gait beautifully but can get strung out if I don't ride them properly. They both canter also...the only problem is the TWH will try to canter when I ask for a very fast gait...its easier. I just do what this person does. Hold him in the gait gently an squeeze slightly sometimes with a verbal correction too. They both have natural trims and great feet...no shoes or long toes here.
                          I haven't had any special lessons although I'm sure I could benefit from them....riding gaited is just a different gear that can get sloppy if you get "stuck between gears". Its a ride that requires you to pay attention to help your horse move smoothly. If you caused your QH to go with a hollow back and high head then you would be permitting poor habits. It the same with gaited horses...even though they are built to gait, they can become sloppy if you don't help them to carry you in frame.
                          I agree with those who have recommended those wonderful sites on gaited horses. I think Lee Ziegler may have videos showing good and bad. (I think it was her) I really studied and still read tons.
                          "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            Gee, how many zeros in a "zillion?"

                            Whether or not you "buy" anything I say is irelevant. You've posted bunk. You should get called on it. End of story.

                            G.
                            That's your uneducated opinion and you are entitled to it. What I posted works and the horses stay sound. End of story.
                            Allah took a handful of southerly wind, blew His breath over it, and created the horse. Thou shall fly without wings, and conquer without any sword, O, Horse!
                            Anonymous Bedouin legend

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by kasjordan View Post
                              I agree, you can absolutely canter your gaited horse. My Walker has the smoothest rocking chair canter and has never had an issue because I canter him.
                              After you watch some videos of horses doing different gaited walks, take your mare to a paved road and try it there- you will be able to not only feel/see, you will be able to hear her footfalls.
                              The simplest way to tell you is to keep contact and it might be pretty tight contact at first and push her forward at the same time with your legs..you might notice that if you let the contact go, that's when you get the uncomfortable gait.
                              My TWH's not only have the to-die-for smooth, round canter, they JUMP!

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Excellent link:

                                Try www.windsweptstables.net, or google Gary Lane. When you get on his site, read "Articles."

                                Some superb and pertinent information there.

                                Good Luck!

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