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Akhal Teke for Endurance?

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  • Akhal Teke for Endurance?

    Hello everyone--this is my first post here. I love reading the discussions on this board

    I was wondering how the Akhal Teke stacks up in endurance riding. The Teke of today is not the same horse as it was prior to Russian subjugation of the Turkmen (though in Iran, there are many Turkmen with the old bloodlines predating Russian influence). I've read in many places that the Thoroughbred was highly influential in forming the modern Akhal Teke, and making it less of an endurance horse, as well as breeding practices that promoted looks or short-distance racing over its traditional role as a nomad's best friend.

    Any Teke owners out there who can compare, say, the endurance Arab to the endurance Teke? Can Tekes still be capable of endurance feats as they were in 1935 and 1988, riding from Ashgabat to Moscow with no shelter and little water?

    http://www.teke.ca/2007/06/05/racing/

    Sorry for all the questions--it's a topic I've been wondering about for literally years. Thank you!
    Last edited by QacarXan; Feb. 26, 2011, 04:07 PM. Reason: added link to endurance teke info
    My website

  • #2
    Kyzteke can help you out on this question better then most I would think. I know a lot less about ATs, although I've randomly followed them as a breed over the years, because I've always planned on buying one.

    Ats have been bred (I may be wrong) for the last several generations or more mainly for flat racing - so there might be a bit of the whole breed for speed, not other qualities going on in some aspects,, as happened with TBs- but I would say they are still more than viable as endurance horses. -They have the right built, right muscle structure- etc
    Originally posted by ExJumper
    Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks for your input! They have definitely been geared towards flat racing in the Turkmenistani and Russian breeding programs, though the Turkmen are going to start a new national breed registry soon. I also have read statements by one of the Turkmen Ministers of the Horse (not sure if he's still the current one) saying he wants to preserve the old type Teke, not the Russian-manipulated one. I'm hoping that proves to be the case, both for the genetics of the breed and the restoration of the most potent symbol of the old Turkmen way of life.

      I messaged Kyzteke, and hope they join us here soon.

      There have been something like 5 Teke or Teke x Arab in the Tevis cup apparently in the last decade or so (at least!), which considering there are only 32 registered in the AERC altogether, certainly seems to indicate considerable aptitude.

      I also found that a long-distance rider went from Isfahan (Iran) to Paris on an Iranian Turkmen horse, a cousin/sibling to the Teke but with no TB infusion.

      I hope to buy one someday as well, preferably from the Iranian strains. I'm Iranian (albeit in political exile) and may be able to finagle that if the political situation changes in the next 50 years :-)

      I'd also like to breed Teke x Arab crosses, preferably Teke x Muniqi strain, which, Raswan argued, was likely descended from Teke. In Iran, these crosses are called "Chenaran" and are famed, of course, for their endurance even when compared to purebreds of either Arab or Teke.
      Last edited by QacarXan; Mar. 5, 2011, 10:46 AM.
      My website

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello QacarXan,

        I am an Akhal-Teke breeder, though my program is geared more towards producing Tekes for the FEI-discipline sports. I admire endurance, and would love to take a stab at it, but I don't have enough time for what I am already responsible for...

        Most of the Teke breeding today is unfortunately geared towards producing the exotic, snake-eyed look so prized in Russia- the more extreme, the more rewarded. Not many breeders select for performance, except racing, and those who do usually attempt to change the intrinsic qualities of the breed to make them "more competitive" with other mainstream breeds. Search carefully for breeders who favor and attempt to maintain the same qualities that you mention, more of the original historical types.

        I dabble in crossbreeding occasionally, but I personally feel the Teke purebred is a better horse than the halfbreds, but I am a purist... Especially since the Teke-Arab cross with the most AERC miles was sired by my stallion ! But the purebreds are not for everyone. I don't know where you are located but you are welcome to come and visit to see them in person.

        I spoke with Kyzteke last night ( she is my good friend ), she knows about the thread and she hopes to chime in but she is really busy right now !

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thank you for sharing your experience--it sounds like your take on the Teke is exactly the kind that would (and apparently HAS) produce the kind truest to the original nature and intent of the breed. That's so exciting that one of yours is so capable in endurance!

          I'm definitely a purist too, though once in a while I'd like to have a Chenaran (Arab x Teke) gelding as well. Reading about the old Teke in English and Farsi, and looking at pictures of the original horses of Turkmenistan and the current horses of Iran, there are huge differences with the breed being propagated by the Russian programs. Here are some photos of current Turkmen horses in Iran.
          http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...58999&v=photos

          It's also great to hear that the purebreds are so capable. I am saddened by the gradual loss of genetic diversity in the breed outside of Iran, especially given its age and intrinsic value. I'd very much like to contribute to the preservation of the breed someday. My ancestors rode these horses for at least hundreds of years, and loved them deeply, so I have a vested personal interest.

          I'm in Virginia too (Loudoun County) and would love to see your horses sometime!
          My website

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, you are quite close to me, just a few hours. As soon as yak season is over, come on down !

            It is very frustrating watching what is going on in the breed today. Those qualities which made it the legendary animal written about for centuries are those which are being bred out the fastest, particularly the movement, which is quite unique in it's true form.

            We are fortunate here in the US to have descendents of some really good horses, the first imports into this country, though considered "culls" by the Russians and therefore sold at auction, gave us some bloodlines very rare now in the rest of the world, and some really excellent foundation stock that was quite true to old-type. But then the extremeness fad took over, and everyone ignored these Tekes, many proven in sport, in favor of those more exotic imports suddenly available after the fall of the Soviet Union, so now there are many of those here as well, lovely to look at, but you don't ride a hooded eye or a "zatylok" neck or a hairless mane...

            Since you are from Iran, you might be interested to know that I have the only two Akhal-Teke/Caspian crosses I know of in the world here too, my attempt to see if the DNA points true to the theory that those two breeds created the Arabian...

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for this threat!!! I am interested was well! I love the history and like you guys I love following the pure bloodlines. I follow S.E. Arabians and I do endurance. I came across the Teke horse by a friend who read some article and that how my interest started.

              Gindarkh...what is the temperament of the Purebred Teke? Or do you have a wed site or can you recommend any sites?

              Comment


              • #8
                I was lucky enough to ride a purebred for Endurance many years ago.

                Very smooth but more competitive than myself. Only bad habit was that if he saw a horse and rider in the distance you needed to cross your reins and weight your stirrups because he was catching them.

                Very protective at vet checks. Kept between the vet and myself. Protective of me like a GSD with other people and horses at home or away.

                Cooled out more quickly than my arabs. More brave but less trusting in my judgement.

                Very intelligent and opinionated.

                Extremely safe.

                I miss him!
                “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
                ? Albert Einstein

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Since you are from Iran, you might be interested to know that I have the only two Akhal-Teke/Caspian crosses I know of in the world here too, my attempt to see if the DNA points true to the theory that those two breeds created the Arabian...
                  I'd never heard of that theory, but now that I've thought about it and googled pictures of your horses (sorry if that's google-stalking but I couldn't resist ) it makes complete sense to me. Caspian spine and head, Teke endurance, etc...your crosses could definitely pass for Arabs.

                  I was lucky enough to ride a purebred for Endurance many years ago.

                  Very smooth but more competitive than myself. Only bad habit was that if he saw a horse and rider in the distance you needed to cross your reins and weight your stirrups because he was catching them.

                  Very protective at vet checks. Kept between the vet and myself. Protective of me like a GSD with other people and horses at home or away.

                  Cooled out more quickly than my arabs. More brave but less trusting in my judgement.

                  Very intelligent and opinionated.

                  Extremely safe.

                  I miss him!
                  That's great to hear! So biologically, you feel that the Teke is more than equal in potential to Arabs due to its structure and physiology?

                  It's interesting to hear about his protective instincts. That's another thing the Russian program seems to be breeding out a lot, but it's something the Turkmen valued very highly and one of the reasons they treated their mounts like exactly what they were: family. There are many anecdotes of how protective of their riders these horses were in combat.

                  Thank you for addressing both the physical capabilities, and character. Those are so important in any horse, but especially when on the trail for miles and hours in a variety of situations. You've clarified a lot of my questions.
                  My website

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by QacarXan View Post
                    I'd never heard of that theory, but now that I've thought about it and googled pictures of your horses (sorry if that's google-stalking but I couldn't resist ) it makes complete sense to me. Caspian spine and head, Teke endurance, etc...your crosses could definitely pass for Arabs.
                    LOL, you didn't have to Google me, my webpage is listed here under my member info, but I'm glad you liked them ! The pictures are old and I will update them after they shed out this year.

                    Horsefaerie, who were you riding ? How long ago was it ? Your comments were right on the mark, they are indeed protective of their riders, once they have bonded to their person, they tend to feel a great responsibility to look after them, which can tend to hinder their performance if their rider feels it necessary to dictate such things as jump-takeoffs- when you ride one you have to give up complete control and accept an equal ( and sometimes smaller !) partnership in decision-making, they are so intelligent they need to be part of the equation all the time. They also get bored VERY easily and cannot stand repetitive drilling, you have to vary their routine a lot and find new and innovative ways to train them. But I have never ridden anything more athletic, supple or elastic, and you truly cannot wear them out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Forgot to mention there was another thread on here recently about the breed : http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ht=akhal-tekes, with some comments by other owners about their Tekes...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, it seems like you guys are doing just fine without me....and I'm learning alot as well.

                        Gindarkh & I have had a number of spirited discussions about the breed, and, although we disagree about many things, I think I can safely say we DO agree that the Russian management of the breed (currently at least) is not leading the breed in a great direction.

                        As G. has mentioned, it seems there is more emphasis on "type" than performance (other than flat racing). It goes without saying that generations of this has (IMHO) weakened the breed, certainly in the area of endurance.
                        Also, because the so-called "mother" studbook is controlled, not only by the Russians but by ONE single person, many horses of quality from other countries are excluded (like all the ones from Iran for instance). ALL the horses who wish to be registered in the Russian studbook are evaluated & graded by this ONE person and have been for many, many years. She has the ability to include or exclude a horse and when a Teke breeder tells you a horse was the highest scoring horse in Europe (for example), keep in mind that is the opinion of one, single individual.

                        So, while experienced breeders & horsefolks (like G & myself) might go their own way in terms of their choices in breeding, the newbie first investigating the breed might be very impressed with this "high scoring" stuff.

                        Therefore there have been a number of horses brought into this country (usually from Russia) who look good on paper, but have some serious structural or mental faults.

                        In fact, one of the highest scoring Tekes in America fits into this category. This horse was not only widely promoted because of his high scores, but also widely used -- and IMO did the breed absolutely no good and possibly did some harm.

                        Unlike G., I am NOT a "purist", especially in this case. I did start out this way, but the more I investigated breeding, the history of breeding and the various breeds I have been involved with, the less of a purist I became.

                        Perhaps it was because my first Akhal-Teke (and the mare from which all my stock has come) was not considered a PB by the Russian registry. Although her dam (great-dam? help me out here G.) left Russia w/ PB papers, the studbook manager mentioned above felt the use of TB blood in the breed was still going on, so she purged the SB of many animals she felt might contain TB blood added after the first studbook was formed (keep in mind that TB blood added prior to this was not pentalized, so most of the modern Tekes in Russia contain TB blood -- some of them a surprising amount % of it. So, while they DO carry "purebred" papers, they are not genetically "pure").

                        Many of her decisions were based on little or no evidence (this was long before DNA and even before blood-typing); in the case of my mare, it was (per her statement) based on a single letter received from a single person who had worked at the stud farm over 20 yrs prior.

                        If that information was true, that made my mare something like 89% Teke. I think G. will back me up on this, but all of her foals (all by different stallions) certainly look like Tekes, move like Tekes and act like Tekes, so if she does contain TB blood, it certainly didn't impact her production.

                        Also, I think it is extremely important to note that over 1/3 of the horses listed in the first studbook did NOT have confirmed, written pedigrees. And, while I don't have the numbers in front of me, at least 1/3 of the horses who took part in the famous 1935 ride were not "pure" Akhal Tekes. Some were cross-bred and some were Yomuds, which is another strain of Turkomen horses. Instead, the participating animals (and riders) were pulled from Turkomen soldiers and their mounts who routinely patrolled the borders -- horses & riders who were extremely fit.

                        It's also very important to point out that, especially in the beginning, record-keeping was faulty to the point of being almost ridiculous. Horses who were listed as half or part breds in the first stud book miraculously became "purebreds" by Book III. Even as recently as several years ago, scores given at an inspection here in the States changed when the inspector returned to Russia. This sort of stuff is very common, so many "fact" are not actually factual.

                        Also people must realize these horses were not breeding or being utilized in a vacuum. During the time when the studbook was being created, or when these animals were being bred, Russia was a communist system, private-property frowned on (at least for the proletariat; for the rich folks it was ok ) and graft was rampant. In fact, a well-known Russian breeder who is now in the States laughingly told a friend of mine that for the right amt of $$, he could make sure any horse could be a "purebred." And I have no doubt he was telling the truth.

                        All of this in extremely important information, because you cannot accurately look at the history of ANY breed without looking at the political and social environment in which they were created. Man is doing the creating, and man must do what it takes to survive in his enviroment. This sort of political and historical stuff, while perhaps rather boring, is key to understanding the accuracy of information on any breed and why some horses were used and others weren't.

                        Now, because of my involvement with Tekes and with WBs, my opinion on breeding has changed over the years. The WB is a shining example of a "purpose-bred" animal and clearly illustrates the success of this method, coupled with rigorous testing and culling.

                        Over the years, my involvement with TBs & Arabs has clearly shown me that so-called "purity" in and of itself bring absolutely NOTHING to the table other than a verifiable pedigree. It does not bring quality, it does not bring ability, it does not even bring "type" (which is the line most breeders will give you.). It, in fact, brings nothing.

                        All one has to do to prove my point is examine the wide variety (in all the areas mentioned above) in such purebred breeds as Arabs & TBs. or instance, check out this horse:
                        http://mandolynn.com/Stalliions-Virg...l%20Maury.html

                        And then this one:
                        http://www.rolervickarabians.com/stallions/OutOfCyte/Both PB Arabs. Doesn’t look like even the same breed, but less the same “type.” So much for the theory that purity sets type.

                        So, slowly over the years, I have change my mind about breeding and I am now firmly in the camp of "purpose-bred" breeding. After all, purpose-bred breeding is what created such amazing animals as the original Teke and Arab.

                        Now, folks will tell you that all of the pedigrees of these horses were committed to memory and the breeders (and users) of these two breeds put great stock in "purity." Perhaps this was true, but I'm betting that they put far MORE stock in performance. After all, their very lives depended on it.[/SIZE]

                        For example: let's say Turkoman Raider "A" swoops down on his enemies’ village and steals a horse. This horse turns out to be strong, brave, fast, hardy -- top-notch stuff if you are TM warrior.

                        Well, first of all, do you really think they are going to NOT use this animal for breeding just because they don't know his pedigree? Of course not! They are going to breed the snot o/o him! So how the heck are they going to determine his pedigree, much less his level of "purity?" I doubt the thief stopped on his way out to ask... Send a fax to his yurt?

                        No, alot of things have changed, but human nature has not. I suspect in these cases the guy either made something up or...made something up.. Probably involving some god or miracle or some other thing that would explain the creation of this miraculous animal. But the only thing that would make him go to all this trouble in the first place would be if the horse could PERFORM -- if he could excel at his job....and his job was NOT standing around looking elegant and shiny.

                        THIS is how the breed came forth and so many horse breeders of so many breeds have lost sight of the fact looks has little to do with how well a horse performs. And, to repeat myself, neither does "purity."

                        So, if I was in charge of the Teke world , I would put far less emphasis on who the Russians call "pure" and far more what the horse looks likes, moves like and performs like. Also how they produce. I would incorporate stock from places like Iran and TM, although I would want pedigrees to be verified and all horses DNA'ed from the start (there is much talk that TM especially is not keeping very accurate records in terms of their breeding stock).

                        As far as the Teke breed today and his ability for endurance, I can't really say. Not enough of them are out there doing it, at least in this country. The Russians (that I've spoken with) don't consider "endurance" much of a sport and aren't breeding for it.

                        And, yes, a number of Tekes have competed in Tevis, but only one has actually finished. It is interesting to note that this single animal (a mare) was one of the Tekes which here in America we call a 'highbred', meaning she falls in the same category as my mare; somewhere back there an ancestor was tossed out of the purebred studbook because of suspicion of outside (non-Teke) blood.

                        The purebred Teke with the highest number of AERC miles has only a pathetic 450 miles to his credit.

                        The Teke with the highest number of AERC miles was also a highbred - I think he had about 1100, which, again, is not a HUGE number of miles, but still better than 450. He was gelded and sold by his owner because he was not "pure." Stupid, stupid, stupid. Oh, did I say how stupid that was?:mad

                        ]My foundation mare only competed once -- her FIRST (and only) ride was a 75 miler and she placed 7th.

                        Her son, Kinor, has only produced one Teke offspring and he is not yet 1 yr old, but I'm hoping he will do well in sport (endurance or otherwise). Kinor also has a fair number of crosses (mostly Arabs, but also other breeds) out there, but the oldest is only coming 5 yrs old, so their careers as endurance horses have barely started. The oldest one did his first 50 last year and did well -- finished in good condition in a ride where about 1/4 of the horses were pulled. This horse is o/o a breeding stock Paint mare, incidentally.

                        Mel Hare and Kerry Redente, both very knowledable and successful endurance riders (Kerry was AERC's '09 National High Mileage Champion) have Kinor/Arab offspring in their barns, just waiting for them to grow up. Mel's horse will be 3 this year, so still along way from proving himself as an endurance mount.

                        In fact, if you look, you will see that this is one area Tekes need to improve on -- "proving" themselves a performance arena.

                        Phil Case, the man who brought the very first Akhal-Teke into this country (and also lives near G. and the OP), spent HUGE amounts of $$ promoting his stock and putting them in training -- mostly eventing -- back in the '80's and early '90's. One of his Tekes was even long-listed of the Olympic team in this sport under Craig Stevens. And eventing is a sport that was almost custom designed for Tekes, because almost any Teke can jump. But since then the dirth of true "performance" Tekes has been noticable and that hasn't helped the breed either.

                        Currently, G. probably has more of her stock out there performing -- mostly in eventing & stadium jumping -- and this speaks very highly of her breeding program. I'm sure many of these horses could do well in endurance too, since I feel a horse who can do well in higher level eventing, can be a successful endurance horse as well. Maybe not a Tevis winner, but definitely good at the sport.

                        As for disposition -- well, this is another area where G. and I argue constantly. It has been my experience, not only with my stock but also with others, that Tekes can be "difficult" to handle -- but that is because they DO tend to be rather opinionated and they are a very sensitive & intelligent to boot.They are not a breed that suffers fools well. They DO bond deeply with "their" person and they tend to pick that person themselves. I could tell you numerous stories of Tekes (or even Teke crosses) I've bred and handled for the first year or two of their lives, then sold. YEARS later, even after they have been under the care of their new owner for ages, I would visit & was able to get them to do things their owner could not -- and, while I consider myself a very capable horsewoman, I'm certainly no horsewhisperer.

                        And I am not alone in this opinion. Kerry Redente, who has bred her mares to Kinor 3-4 times (and who is a FAR better horsewoman than I) said just recently that "those Tekes sure are different."

                        However, then there is the fabled Absent, who competed under two different riders in the Olympics, so if he started out being fussy, he certainly got over it.

                        But it can be (and is) an issue with many of the breed, so keep that in mind (or buy your horse from G., who swears none of her's are like this).

                        However, I will say that once you get that bond going for you, a Teke is almost dog-like in their response and bond to their owner (again, my experience).

                        When Kinor was returned to me (I bred him, but he was sold as a weanling), he came back as a very ill-mannered 20 month old stallion who had already pasture-bred one mare . It took quite awhile before we got to that happy place between us, but the last 2 yrs of his life I could not only breed him in nothing but a rope halter (well, I wore more than that, but HE wore only a rope halter ). The last year of his life we had things down so well I could lead the mare into his pasture and, just through hand signals, he would wait till I had her in position and all ready to go. Then I would give him the signal and he would approach and breed her. Anyone will tell you this is NOT an easy thing to get a breeding stallion to do.

                        I will say that in my life time I have had extensive experience (both as a pro and currently as an ammie) with several breeds and I feel that many Tekes ARE different in their attitude and disposition.

                        Well, I've offered about as much as I can to this discussion. Between other commitment and computer/connection issues, I will respectfully bow out and leave you in the capable hands of G., who knows far more about the state of breed than I, although my opinions are usually more correct.

                        BTW, here is a great example of an Arab/Teke cross very well suited for endurance. He was rather tense that day, since he hadn't been off the farm since he was a foal, but you can see how the Teke will improve the gaits (at least imho)
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hy9uu4Mos

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                        • #13
                          Friends were assigned to Turkmenistan and leased a pair of Akhal Tekes...what a horrible place to be a horse. Typically no vet care and no vaccinations (we helped them sneak vaccines for both horses in a vacuum thermos.) The horses didn't hold up to the hard work...there was some sort of neck-shoulder weakness/problem that seemed to do in most of the horses. When they were lame/injured they were turned out to die. You'll see the Akhals on the side of the road starving.

                          The Turkmenbashi, leader, when he took power from the Russians had every non Akhal Teke either killed or if a stallion, gelded. On Akhals were allowed to remain as a symbol of Turkmen pride.
                          "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

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                          • #14
                            Great thread.

                            Could you please post some links to the different types of AT you reference?

                            Kyzteke, that youtube link doesn't work.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kyzteke View Post
                              Well, I've offered about as much as I can to this discussion. Between other commitment and computer/connection issues, I will respectfully bow out and leave you in the capable hands of G., who knows far more about the state of breed than I, although my opinions are usually more correct.
                              Love you too !!

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                              • #16
                                Perhaps because they were not bred by a government organization for most of their 5,000 year history, but developed as a tribal horse, ridden to war but kept at home, the horses we now know as Akhal Tekes do not conform to a single standard in the first place. There are different lines within the breed, and as they are dispersed around the world, regional differences will probably evolve as they have with the thoroughbred. Even within North America there is also disagreement about what is correct or desirable -- but then this is a vast and diverse nation.

                                As an "end user," you don't need to debate these issues, fortunately.

                                I can say that from a riders' point of view, the small sample that I have ridden (five or seven, depending if you count crosses) all had in common the "glide ride" and the ability to tune in to my plan. Because they are the kind of horse I like in the first place (I have always ridden TB's), I was instantly smitten.

                                I am no hardcore endurance rider but I have done a little bit (on a Teke and a Teke cross), so I laughed when I read what horsefaerie wrote. Once they figure out what the drill is, the strong-willed ones will try to get ahead a few steps -- but there are very pliable characters in the breed too. I am working with two of these right now.

                                Many of the horses competing in endurance are "owner/operator" horses, which suits them, but they are not always with riders who can compete as often as they would like and don't rack up the miles or top 10 finishes at a very impressive level.

                                However, both purebreds and crosses are showing up in increasing numbers at rides here in the PNW. I made a list when putting together the breed brochure for the WEG (pm me if you'd like and I can send you a link to the brochure - G. provided me with a little factchecking help on it).

                                There were 10 Akhal Tekes (pure or impure) who had completed at 50-100 mile distances that I could verify from AERC records and quite a lot more part-breds. I don't claim my list was complete - and obviously from what K. says there are quite a few more in training. In addition, Monica Bennett (that's NOT me) is aiming for Tevis this year with her cross Inde.

                                They are not going to take over the sport anytime soon. As has been pointed out, they are not a flavor for everyone, but they have attracted new riders to endurance (like me!) and Tekes with the size, build, temperament and hoof quality to excel in endurance are easier to find now than before. I expect there will be continued growth in this area as well as in eventing.

                                One thing is for sure - if you do anything in public with a Teke, you will meet an increasing number of people who know about and are fascinated with the breed. You have to be a fast study!
                                Publisher, http://www.endurance-101.com
                                Blog: http://blog.seattlepi.com/horsebytes/

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by monicabee View Post
                                  There were 10 Akhal Tekes (pure or impure) who had completed at 50-100 mile distances that I could verify from AERC records and quite a lot more part-breds. I don't claim my list was complete - and obviously from what K. says there are quite a few more in training. In addition, Monica Bennett (that's NOT me) is aiming for Tevis this year with her cross Inde.
                                  First of all, I hope you have Karma on your list! She is my foundation mare, (currently 24 yrs old) and dam of Kinor, therefore granddam of every Arab x I've bred. She is in the AERC records, which shows the ONE race she took part in was a 75 miler here in the PNW, where she Top 10'ed.

                                  That would make her the granddam of this horse I mentioned above and tried to post the link to his video. I've tried again, and for some reason it just won't connect. But if you are interested, go to YouTube and look up videos by user RecklessHeartRanch. You can see videos of Kinor, and several crosses sired by him. The one related to INDE is named Cisco Rose RHR.

                                  This horse is also a half-brother to Monica Woodman's "INDE", (same dam). Inde was sired by a PB Teke who was a half-sibling to Karma, so they are closely related.

                                  BTW, Inde (Registered name is Atash) was bred by me -- he was the second horse I ever bred. I still have his dam, Maja. Just ask Monica what Inde was/is like to deal with . Hotter than a $2 pistol!
                                  Thank goodness she ended up with him.

                                  However, I really can't put all the blame on his Teke side -- Maja CAN throw hot. She had a Teke x colt by Kinor who was just as spicy as INDE. But the horse in the video (Cisco Rose RHR) is not like that...he is actually very good-minded.

                                  Oh -- and I hope you also have Octopelle on your list, although he hadn't done his 50 if you made your list prior to WEG. Octopelle is just starting his endurance career with Shannon Mayfield -- this will be his second year. As I mentioned, he is o/o a breeding stock Paint mare.

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                                  • #18
                                    Placing an A-T with a world class rider idea

                                    Jeannie Waldron is my freind and long time vet. I talked to her yesterday about the tekes and asked her if she had ever had the opportunity to ride or work with one.

                                    She admire the breed, but has never had the funds to buy one.

                                    My thought is that if there is an interest in promoting the breed by having a double world champion and Hall of Famer work with one, here is your opportunity.

                                    I am very interested in the breed, so that is where this idea comes from.
                                    Intermediate Riding Skills

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                                    • #19
                                      Great thread!

                                      Spankin' new to the forum, and here I find a thread near and dear to me!

                                      I recently bought a colt as my next prospect for endurance. He is a Teke x Arab. Unfortunately, another 2 years before competition age.

                                      K, fascinating stuff! Though I am curious as to which stallion you speak of (the one that is not your cup o' tea). PM if you like; b/c I am nosy, and wondering why you did not like. I am always wanting to learn more about the lines.

                                      G, love your horses!

                                      OP, I think Tekes, in general are great for the sport. So long as they are soundly built! Some of them are poorly built, and would not hold up to the many miles. But the light build, allowing for quick and efficient cooling is VERY important. So there is an advantage there.

                                      Only reason I didn't buy a PB was economics, and I fell in love with the individual colt I got. Breed was incidental.

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                                      • #20
                                        I can't answer your questions but I have to say Akhal Teke's have the COOLEST coats!!!

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