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Thomas - Are there combination classes in the UK?

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  • #21
    He he I apply lots of makeup when I show my ASB. My husband calls it my "Saddlebred cheeks".

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by Aptor Hours View Post
      He he I apply lots of makeup when I show my ASB. My husband calls it my "Saddlebred cheeks".
      Well, but when you think about it, there's a practical reason for the makeup, too: night classes!!! I bet you and my favorite ASB look splendiforous under the lights!!
      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

      Comment


      • #23
        Near me is a riding club called The Outlaws which is composed entirely of gaited horse owners. Most of these are ASBs, with a few TWs thrown in. I've been to a few of their shows, and these, I suspect, are more of the "real" ASBs and walkers. They can MOVE. No long feet or funny shoes. No "nicked" tails. No bugged eyes. Just beautiful big action, very fast, with riders dressed beautifully but in no particular style. Everybody looks happy, engaged, eager, top-of-the-milk, but without the slightly insane look of the show ring. Love watching the Outlaws and their horses.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
          I'm afraid I've got more confused now. I can see what we call a GP saddle and a show saddle. And we have both those types of saddle in the UK too.

          Look closer Thomas... the saddleseat saddle
          www.nationalbridle.com/ProdDetail.asp?Catalog_ID=4859 is actually very different to an english show saddle http://www.saddlery-british.com/show_saddle.htm

          Interestingly though the saddle suit http://www.saddlery-british.com/show_saddle.htm as described by War Admiral is similar to what gentlemen can wear here in Show Hack classes: http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho.../w225_2522.jpg

          I would imagine the provence is the same - attractive horses able to give a smooth, mannerly ride.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            Originally posted by EasterEgg View Post
            Interestingly though the saddle suit http://www.saddlery-british.com/show_saddle.htm as described by War Admiral is similar to what gentlemen can wear here in Show Hack classes: http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho.../w225_2522.jpg

            I would imagine the provence is the same - attractive horses able to give a smooth, mannerly ride.
            Easter Egg, that is fascinating! Thanks so much for that pic - I had no idea there was any discipline in the UK where people wear this sort of attire. I learn something new about horses every day of my life!!

            And yes, you're pretty much right. If I lived in the UK, showing hacks and driving would probably be my main areas of interest.
            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

            Comment


            • #26
              Let me make myself clear here!! and what a great video.

              Let me start off with what a great video of Digger. Awesome horse. He is truly talented. He is what the original Walking horse was bred to be.

              Before you take my head off at the shoulder level,

              I am NOT lumping or confusing all gaited horses into a single class here
              Having had TWH as trail horses I fully appreciated the naturally gaited horse of any breed. I have ridden Pasos, Icelandic, Mo Foxtrotters and many walkers. I am NOT comparing those gaited horses to the Big Lick horse.
              I rode my first 2 years of distance on a small TWH that could go all day long in his running walk.

              My statement was refering to the Big Lick Horse I was talkiing about in my experience.

              My observation was made about one aspect of the TWH world--the Big Lick horse that is shod up on platforms, kept in the stall 23 hours a day, with a harness that keeps their broken tail up in a wad. Yes this is a minor part of the TWH world. and I am NOT trying to start any conversation about abuse of TWH here.

              Here are a handful of noodles, start flaying me if you will

              War Admiral, as far as ASB--I know zip about them other than a nickname an old Standardbred trainer told me. I really never considered them as a gaited horse simply because I have no experience around them. so we can take them out of my conversation .

              BDJV--Perhaps I should have said Big Lick instead of gaited but I figured the reference was clear.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by bludejavu View Post
                Please don't confuse the Big Lick TWH with other gaited breeds and types - they are literally worlds apart. I thought you might like to see a video of a really cool speed racker going down the side of the road. It's a little lengthy but well worth the watch.

                http://www.spottedhaven.com/diggerstud.html
                Thank you very much for the video link. What a fun video to watch! Also WA for the racking Saddlebred link. Again, very nice to watch, easy to see the footfall pattern.

                I know some Trail riders who do the 'flying along' speed rack demonstrated beside the truck. This rack is done while pretending it is just a normal gait! They go side-by-side, passing snacks back and forth like in front of the TV set watching a big game. You hardly have time to glimpse them before they are out of sight. Usually two little old wizened up guys, just grinning until their faces must hurt!! And no bounce at all!

                As a note, a Racking horse is supposed to be the fastest of equines. Even faster than a TB on the track. I remember being very surprised to find that out! It was a measurement of ground covered, not a head to head race if I am correct. Racking horse covered the measured distance faster than the galloping horse could, when comparing times. I do believe it was a speed Racker setting the record, rather than the Saddlebred. They both do a Rack, but footfall is slightly different according to the Farriers I know.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by EasterEgg View Post
                  as described by War Admiral is similar to what gentlemen can wear here in Show Hack classes: http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho.../w225_2522.jpg

                  .
                  What class and which show is that from? It looks to me like evening dress and just an everyday dress top hat rather than a traditional hunting top hat which of course I am familiar with.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                    What class and which show is that from? It looks to me like evening dress and just an everyday dress top hat rather than a traditional hunting top hat which of course I am familiar with.
                    The British Show Hack, Cob & Riding Horse Association National Show 2005.

                    For final judging at the larger shows (National Champs, RIHS, HOYS etc.) gentlemen either wear:
                    http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho.../w225_2511.jpg
                    or
                    http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho.../w224_2407.jpg

                    Standard attire for daytime judging is of course:
                    http://www.showhackandcob.org.uk/pho...6/IMG_6002.jpg

                    Here are a few more examples from this year's HOYS:
                    http://www.theimagefile.com/?skin=38...=VF&id=2511092
                    http://www.theimagefile.com/?skin=38...=VF&id=2510935
                    http://www.theimagefile.com/?skin=38...=VF&id=2510909
                    http://www.theimagefile.com/?skin=38...=VF&id=2511017
                    http://www.theimagefile.com/?skin=38...=VF&id=2511218

                    As I said it's all pretty standard really so I'm surprised that you seem unfamiliar with it
                    Last edited by EasterEgg; Oct. 30, 2006, 04:46 AM. Reason: to fix links

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Cartfall View Post
                      .

                      , with a harness that keeps their broken tail up in a wad. [/COLOR].
                      A little late here, just wanted to clarify and correct. Permit me a small rant please. TWH's and ASB's that wear a tailset DO NOT HAVE THEIR TAILS BROKEN! No no no no no you have no idea how crazy this makes me when people say this, it is NOT true.

                      A horse in a "set" has never have had bones broken, the tailbone is NOT altered and their tails are NOT up in a wad.

                      Rant over. Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by 867-5309 View Post
                        TWH's and ASB's that wear a tailset DO NOT HAVE THEIR TAILS BROKEN!
                        No broken bones but from what I understand they have the nerves cut on each side of the tail THEN the tail is put in a tailset. However cutting the nerves renders the tail ineffective for things like swatting flies. Still nothing that should be done to a horse IMO.
                        Pat Belskie - ASHEMONT Farm

                        PnP Distributors - KUTZMANN Carriages
                        Ashemont2@gmail.com

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Ashemont View Post
                          from what I understand they have the nerves cut on each side of the tail THEN the tail is put in a tailset. However cutting the nerves renders the tail ineffective for things like swatting flies.

                          Then your understanding is wrong. 100% wrong. The tail is fully functional, operational, has full feeling, and the horses swat flies perfectly as the day they were born.

                          Please, I do not want to start a sniping war, just correcting an innacuracy of a couple of statements made.
                          Last edited by 867-5309; Nov. 2, 2006, 09:39 PM. Reason: edited for spelling

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            So you are saying they do NOT cut the nerves anymore? It's been years since I've known anyone involved with showing these horses but the ones I knew (top trainers who went to places like Harrisburg) said they cut the nerves and I observed that the horses could not move their tails. We actually had a couple of retired ones at our barn in NJ and they, too, could not use their tails. It was very sad.

                            If this practice has been stopped then that is good news. But then it begs the question of HOW they do it? How do the tailsets actually work?

                            FWIW for many years the QH pleasure people were nicking the tail nerves to get that nice quiet look in the ring.
                            Pat Belskie - ASHEMONT Farm

                            PnP Distributors - KUTZMANN Carriages
                            Ashemont2@gmail.com

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I will PT you, I cannot stand the thought of a flame war. I do commend you for getting the facts and wanting to know.

                              I have never heard of a horse with a tail rendered useless. Ever. That would be wrong.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                This thread has taken on a mind of its own. The one horse I observed about 12 years ago was a TWH, and the trainer was a nasty guy. When I asked him about the harness and the tail rig, he told me in no uncertain terms that the tail is broken and then they have to have that rig to form it. The tail was all bound up in vet wrap. That is when I had to leave the barn, it literally made me sick to my stomach

                                Now having said that, I know that many breeds have bad trainers. Coming from TWH to Arabians I have seen the good and bad of both. I know all about gingering at ARabian shows to get that extra 1/2 inch of tail rise. Then there is the BIG show barn near here with all the horses tied in the stalls up really short to develop that high head set.

                                I am not trying to steal WA thread, but the conversation did come up.
                                If tails are no longer broken, that is a wonderful thing.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Not again!

                                  I have owned ASBs since the early 70's. I know several trainers, and a Vet, who cut tails- notice I said "cut"- not "break" or any other description. I have never seen or heard of any tail being broken. The practice may be illegal in some states (and is) and you may not agree with it (I am NOT a proponent) but the tail is still quite useable, and the nerves and bones are intact.

                                  More than anything, the practice allows the tail to be set up high, in the fashion that the Saddle Seat folks like.

                                  I've seen tails that were just a mess from being poorly cut, or more probably, poorly cared for after being cut, and that is one nasty nightmare. Then, all breeds that are doing the fashion thing have their issues; the quarterhorses were accused of nerving, or numbing, the tails, the Morgans are cutting tails now, etc.

                                  I like mine natural!
                                  When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                  www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                  http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Once again - they never DID break tails. And the horses CAN still swat flies. 867-5309 speaks the truth. Given that she and I have both been involved w/ ASBs our entire lives, ONE of us, at least, would have run into an ASB with no ability to use its tail, if that were anything other than a rumor - but I never have either...

                                    I think you are confusing us with the Quarter Horse people, some (not all) of whom DO completely sever the nerves in the horse's tail so that the horse cannot switch its tail in the show ring - a huge no-no in that breed show ring. I'm not sure if the AQHA has now made that illegal or not, but it was a widespread practice at one time.
                                    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      And another technique that was employed was to inject with toxic chemical which basically destroyed the nerves in the tail.

                                      All illegal practices in the UK and I understand pretty much frowned upon over there now but sad to hear that the practice of "cutting" tails is still on going.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Thank you WA and Stars.

                                        In the hopes of getting this back ON topic, we've done combination classes (and won them all) the last one we did you had to change tack from driving to under saddle in center ring with a time limit of like 3 minutes. Our American Saddlebred would have won on manners alone just in the tack change portion as his fellow non American Saddlebreds fussed and moved around.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by 867-5309 View Post
                                          Thank you WA and Stars.

                                          In the hopes of getting this back ON topic, we've done combination classes (and won them all) the last one we did you had to change tack from driving to under saddle in center ring with a time limit of like 3 minutes. Our American Saddlebred would have won on manners alone just in the tack change portion as his fellow non American Saddlebreds fussed and moved around.
                                          You're welcome. And yes, that's how I remember the Combination Classes being done in the bad old days. (And BTW they were always called Combination Classes - NOT "Ride and Drive", which is a seeeeeerious vulgarism, IMO! )
                                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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