• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Please help the carriage horses in Atlanta GA

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Please help the carriage horses in Atlanta GA

    Hi all,
    Hate to do this here, TOTALLY new here...just trying to get some help for these horses

    I'm sure you all get enough requests for signatures on FB but, this project has virtually NO support and I know you all will help with this.

    Atlanta GA Carriage horses need help.

    FB page of the group trying to help
    https://www.facebook.com/AAHDC?fref=ts

    Petition
    http://www.change.org/petitions/dema...-in-atlanta-ga


    video (cant imbed it)
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=3&theater
    Last edited by Maximus; May. 24, 2013, 11:57 AM.

  • #2
    Oh dear, here we go..

    There is a "search thread" function on COTH and you will find many threads on this subject if you search.

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear COTH, I apologize for feeding it but an idea has occurred to me and I would like to share it. With that being said...

      Max I didn't read everything, I did however waste about an hour visiting your FB. Now most of the time I think of any kind of "activists" at total nut balls, but you seem pretty intelligent and open to some reasoning. I do not like horses in cities, but often times there is very very little difference in horses lives that live in rural settings or city ones, aside from their view. Many expensive competition horses are kept at places with miles of pasture that they are never turned out on because they may sustain an injury. so a city "barn" with no turn out doesn't necessarily mean bad care, in fact some horse may even thrive in a no turn out + lots of work situation if they have a metabolic disorder or the hay being trucked in is of better quality than in their pasture. Every creature is different you cannot assume that pastures for these horses will make their lives better. I think people would be better and healthier in the country too but we do ok in cities :P

      Now on to my original thought, If there are issues that you feel strongly about, instead of complaining and petitioning why not make an attempt to fix them? As an example, I see there are concerns about the horses not getting watered (valid concern) So why don't you fund-raise and talk to the city about having water troughs installed? Or automatic waters put on lamp posts, their pretty small and it seems like the horses spend a lot of time there. I'm sure it's not hard to get water in a city, but it may be pricy and their may be legalities. However it may be possible and it would do the horses more good than your complaining about the drivers. Food for thought.
      Last edited by Stushica; May. 10, 2013, 05:33 PM. Reason: Grammer
      Saddle Tree Acres

      Comment


      • #4
        Agree with much of what Stushica has said.

        I have zero first-hand knowledge of the Atlanta carriages, but have been following the photos and posts and FB pages about them online for about 2 years.

        I am not one to put great stock into moment-in-time photos, or even videos, as they never tell the whole story.

        That said, there were things that I saw (especially from one company in particular) that can be pretty much be stated as fact; broken/rigged and/or improperly fitted harness and some neglected feet and/or bad shoeing being the main issues to my eye. 90% of the horses depicted looked shiny, in good flesh, sound, and fit.

        I followed as the RARAs unleashed their online assault on this business, and saw also that there is a heavy dose of racism underlying their efforts. Not that racism was their impetus, but it was a very obvious undercurrent in both their view of the people who operate the carriages, and how they treated and spoke about them.

        The sight of these black men - some of them almost elderly - being stalked and haunted and jeered at by RARAs made me physically uncomfortable. The drivers tried their best remain calm on camera - and I know from personal experience how hard that it is.

        Now, anyone who knows me knows I am the very last person to ever pull the race card - I am about as far from "politically correct" as one can get. So I trust my instincts and observations on this.

        But I digress - anyway, after following this situation for sometime, I brought it to our Urban Horse group on FB. We brainstormed, and got 5 volunteers from 3 different states who were willing to go to Atlanta and offer mentoring services and as much good harness as we could round up.

        We all believe along the lines of The Brooke's outlook; that working horses and people should be kept together wherever possible, and that if there are issues to be addressed, you help them address them.

        Our planned intervention fell by the wayside, however; the company under scrutiny and attack from the RARAs closed. I have no idea what happened to the horses.

        BTW, about the OP: I was banned from that FB page after posting logical and germane questions and statements. Also, that is not their real page; they took it private, made another closed group, because they said they did not want those of us reading who were pro-carriage knowing their plans and strategies. They left this one up to get new members, who, after passing muster as toe-the-line individuals, get an invite to the closed group. Just an FYI.
        Last edited by michaleenflynn; May. 14, 2013, 10:40 AM.
        VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

        Comment


        • #5
          If you really are concerned about these horses then you need to partner with actual horse people - not with people that believe that no animal should work, ever, under any circumstances. The Brooke is opening an office in Kentucky (American Friends of the Brooke, www.thebrookeusa.org) and could be a great resource for you. In addition, open up your FB pages - banning those that have a different point of view is not helpful to your "cause" and it could actually bring real help to those horses that need it.
          Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

          "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)

          Comment


          • #6
            Agreed. Censoring pages and deleting people who disagree with you mark you as a RARA, not a horsewoman.

            Comment


            • #7
              and she(?) hasn't been back. Really.
              The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
              H. Cate

              Comment


              • #8
                How big is YOUR horse's stall?

                See... this is what I appreciate about the NYC commercial drivers. They don't just take it for granted everything is OK in another location. They check it out and try to help.

                As opposed to these folks who's answer is not to fix the problem, but to eliminate those animal's jobs entirely.

                Also good info to suggest working with Brooks, but obviously from the found comments on the site, working WITH someone to help make conditions better is NOT on the agenda.

                Does anyone else find it a bit scary that the Atlanta GA code mandates 200 sq ft of space per horse? I know it's probably talking about pens/paddocks etc, but obviously it is being interpreted as 200 sq ft in stall space... that's 10 x 20 or over 14 x 14 folks Is YOUR horse's stall that big?

                Atlanta, Georgia, Code of Ordinances > PART II - CODE OF ORDINANCES—GENERAL ORDINANCES - Chapter 18 - ANIMALS
                Sec. 18-39. - Keeping hoofed animals.
                Hoofed animals, such as horses, cows, goats, sheep and the like, may be kept within the city limits, subject to the following:
                (1) Housing and enclosures. All these animals must be provided with adequate housing, pens or enclosures. Floor space in such housing, pens or enclosures must have the following minima:
                a. Horses, mules, asses or cows, 200 square feet per animal over four months of age.

                Comment


                • #9
                  200 sq ft is rather large. I guess all us Georgia horseowners are criminals then. Did the OP actually describe any hardships these horses are having to endure ?
                  ... _. ._ .._. .._

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by michaleenflynn View Post
                    Agree with much of what Stushica has said.

                    I have zero first-hand knowledge of the Atlanta carriages, but have been following the photos and posts and FB pages about them online for about 2 years.

                    I am not one to put great stock into moment-in-time photos, or even videos, as they never tell the whole story.

                    That said, there were things that I saw (especially from one company in particular) that can be pretty much be stated as fact; broken/rigged and/or improperly fitted harness and some neglected feet and/or bad shoeing being the main issues to my eye. 90% of the horses depicted looked shiny, in good flesh, sound, and fit.

                    I followed as the RARAs unleashed their online assault on this business, and saw also that there is a heavy dose of racism underlying their efforts. Not that racism was their impetus, but it was a very obvious undercurrent in both their view of the people who operate the carriages, and how they treated and spoke about them.

                    The sight of these black men - some of them almost elderly - being stalked and haunted and jeered at by RARAs made me physically uncomfortable. The drivers tried their best remain calm on camera - and I know from personal experience how hard that it is.

                    Now, anyone who knows me knows I am the very last person to ever pull the race card - I am about as far from "politically correct" as one can get. So I trust my instincts and observations on this.

                    But I digress - anyway, after following this situation for sometime, I brought it to our Urban Horse group on FB. We brainstormed, and got 5 volunteers from 3 different states who were willing to go to Atlanta and offer mentoring services and as much good harness as we could round up.

                    We all believe along the lines of The Brooke's outlook; that working horses and people should be kept together wherever possible, and that if there are issues to be addressed, you help them address them.

                    Our planned intervention fell by the wayside, however; the company under scrutiny and attack from the RARAs closed. I have no idea what happened to the horses.

                    BTW, about the OP: I was banned from that FB page after posting logical and germane questions and statements. Also, that is not their real page; they took it private, made another closed group, because they said they did not want those of us reading who were pro-carriage knowing their plans and strategies. They left this one up to get new members, who, after passing muster as toe-the-line individuals, get an invite to the closed group. Just an FYI.
                    Well done you! I'm sorry that your efforts to help educate came to naught, but I applaud the effort.

                    Many years ago I noticed a lame carriage horse in New Orleans. Just the one, the others looked quite well. It was disturbing and that particular situation needed to be addressed. My thought, was just that. Not a reactionary "Oh no shut down the industry"!

                    It's good that you offer knowledgeable help to your fellow carriage people, instead of the meaningless criticism of the RARA's that have no working experience with horses and/or an obvious agenda.

                    If there are problems then they need to be addressed case by case, as is every other equine welfare issue that does not involve inherent cruelty.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Curious that the original poster has not been back. I checked out the FB page and a lot of the photos are really non-issues that appear to be "issues" thought up by people that don't know horses ( farrier work they didn't understand, slight nasal discharges in springtime, a horse with a ding on his leg....a horse playing with a food pan seemed to get everybody upset).

                      The issues did not appear that bad. I saw a couple of photos of horses with shelly hoof walls and some harness rubs on winter coats. There were a lot of photos of dirty looking harness and diaper bags held on with baling twine....image issues more than harmful to the horse.

                      Horses were being housed in a converted warehouse called (the Icehouse) and lived in a dirt paddock under what looks like an expressway and the place was cluttered.
                      Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                      Bernard M. Baruch

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        this is what really happens in Atlanta

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=aSY7rXmZS8U

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see people who don't seem to know that it could be detrimental to give a horse that has been working a full bucket of water. I see people who have no idea if the horse has been given water or not before they arrived.

                          The horse seems to be the type that was quite prevalent back in the day, such as the milk or beer wagon horse who knew his rounds and stopped and stayed until his driver came back. Perhaps it is best not to leave the horse unattended in this day and age, because of traffic concerns and because ignorant do gooders could give it a big bucket of water or otherwise interfere when it would be harmful to the horse.

                          The driver probably stopped to take a quick pee and then was confronted by women freaking out because the horse was blowing. Jeeze..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, you must be new here since all carriage horse (I believe we have only had pro-carriage horse threads by Michaleenflynn )threads are posted in Off Course.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
                              Well, you must be new here since all carriage horse (I believe we have only had pro-carriage horse threads by Michaleenflynn )threads are posted in Off Course.
                              As you can see, it was this person's first post..

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by skydy View Post
                                As you can see, it was this person's first post..
                                Hence the direction to "Off Course"....Since even Michaleenflynn knows to post on a thread that gets more traffic....

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  [QUOTE=ElizabethNYC;7019098]this is what really happens in Atlanta

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=aSY7rXmZS8U[/QUOTE
                                  You're not going to get too many actual horse owners fired up because a horse has gotten a little exercise. I did enjoy the hysterical shrieking to give poor horsie some water, after it had just turned its nose up when offered water. Thank you for this evidence of your followers' stupidity.
                                  \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Now we've got Stalin posting, so-called because she believes in seizing private property and censoring and banning all those who disagree with her.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by lolalola View Post
                                      Now we've got Stalin posting, so-called because she believes in seizing private property and censoring and banning all those who disagree with her.
                                      Why start name calling ? If you really think you have the better argument why would you start the name calling ? Unless that is all you have going for the pro-carriage cause....

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
                                        Why start name calling ? If you really think you have the better argument why would you start the name calling ? Unless that is all you have going for the pro-carriage cause....
                                        Since you don't drive horses for pleasure or commercial one just has to wonder why you are riffling through and posting in the driving forums SV..other then the obvious?
                                        "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X