• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Ride or drive 1st & when?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ride or drive 1st & when?

    I have a Barockpinto (paint/Friesian) 18 month old colt. Would it be better for his bones(less stress on them) to ride or drive first & what would a minimum age be? Thinking very basic light 2 wheeler if driving.

  • #2
    You're going to get answers all over the place.

    From the saddleseat side, we usually break a horse to drive before riding, often as a 2 year old and then jog them.

    My Amish BO/trainer, who grows gigantic colts, will often "break" them as yearlings - put the harness on them, let them pull a little, then turn them back out for another year. Around 2, he starts driving them more regularly generally a couple times a week. Depending on the colt, my ASB trainer does the same thing. This year he was lamenting NOT having done that with one of colts, a big draft/ASB cross. Life would have been much easier if the colt had been started when he was a lot smaller.

    Between the 2 of them, these guys have been starting colts for over 100 years.
    Visit my Spoonflower shop

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      This colt is over 15.1hh already though very sweet. Going to be kept entire.
      A photo from this morning: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...Horses/011.jpg

      Comment


      • #4
        Way back when, I had a filly that I wanted to both ride and drive. I think she was about 18 months when I first put any kind of tack on her; started first w/ a saddle as it seemed that more stationary tack would be better. Then went to parts of the driving harness, got her used to how they flap against her. I ground drove her around the pastures and in a big field. Mostly at a walk. Backed her at two and change, reinforced the whoa command that she understood pretty well from the ground, then shortly after, hooked her to a light drag and then a small cart.
        So I sort of did both together. It kept me from doing too much of any one thing!! I did NOT do a lot of lunging.
        We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

        Comment


        • #5
          Aren't Fresians very late maturing horses? I would hold off a while longer yet. Maybe ground driving just for discipline and learning- but no serious work for another year.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just my opinion - cuz, mind you I have never worked with a colt that young

            But it is my opinion that the bigger they are, the more important it is for them to know their manners (first and foremost) and what their job is

            And in my opinion, it is easier to teach that to them when they are small and dont have the attitude

            they dont need to actually WORK but they need to know what that work will be

            to carry a saddle
            to carry harness
            to drive and pull a cart
            to carry a person
            to be polite and respectful on the ground - especially around people

            if he leanrs all this by around 2 or so, he can then go out an d grow up some more, with just on occasional reminder now and then

            Ive seen a few horses that have gotten pretty sassy and hard to handle because no one did anything with them for too long

            again - just my opinion
            but it is so nice to be around a horse with good manners and a willing attitude

            Comment


            • #7
              How big he is does not matter, it is when they mature that is important.

              Please read this well-known & often cited paper by Dr Deb Bennet (usually referred to as "the Ranger paper":
              http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_..._2008_pdf1.pdf
              I have a Friesian cross myself. No one was on her back until she was just about 4. These horses, especially, need to be started slowly for both their physical & mental health.

              With the Morgans & Saddlebreds we always broke to drive when they were just over 2. It is great for horse to be dual duty, fantastic from a training perspective, too. He will be already familiar with bridle, rein aids, voice aids.

              Is there a reason this horse is not being gelded? Sooner is always better than later. Unless he is exceptional & you plan on getting him approved, geld. Yesterday.
              Last edited by Hippolyta; Aug. 6, 2012, 02:14 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I am with Drive NJ on working with a young horse to get him used to following directions.

                At our house we do halter practice, so he is used to squaring up, standing still while a person works or stands around him. He walks RIGHT beside you, not dancing, no pulling or moving into you. He trots along beside you, on a slack lead, halts, backs up as far as you ask him. Horse can pivot right or left off the hindquarters, by his handler on the ground asking. We practice this a LOT to get him smooth at it.

                As a long yearling, 2-3yr old, he may get hauled to the local show, to go thru a halter class with STRANGERS!! He is STILL expected to behave, though sometimes horse can barely pay attention. I actually think he learns more standing in the Warm-up area sightseeing! Well worth the cost of entry, for all the bonus features of going out to a show.

                Bonus would be getting clipped and bathed, riding in the trailer with hay to eat. Standing tied to the trailer under supervision, still eating and drinking. Getting led among other animals, being careful not to let him get too close to others. Standing around waiting for our class. Just BEING OBEDIENT in these situations. Not perfect, but trying to obey, 95% listeing to you amid the distractions. He is a baby but he has to learn to do as asked. Him doing the jog-out routine for the Judge, even if it is not "as good as he is at home", at least he did it. And usually you can end things early, take him back home to relax in familiar places. So things are short and sweet, give him good experiences for his future life jobs. He really will do a lot of thinking when at home, should be better acting for your next outing.

                I do suggest using a 12ft lead, gives that extra margin of safety so you don't lose him if something makes him jump away. Might also be called a "stallion lead" with a knot or rubber stopper at the end to grip as leather slides thru your hand!

                I don't think a horse wearing harness or a saddle as a 2yr old, blankets or sheets as a yearling, is harmful. You just want horse experiencing the "feeling" of stuff all over him and accepting that. He can wear tack while doing that Halter Practice or while being tied up. It isn't work yet. And if horse is destined to be a usable stallion, you just have to do LOTS with them to keep them accepting of authority. Hope you have a big, tough gelding to put him in with to keep his enthusiasm a bit squelched!! He needs a big playmate that can take the physical play a healthy young horse will engage in. He has to learn how to be a social animal in a herd for mental health, read body language for his safety. SEVERAL older, bigger, hard minded geldings in a group, has been ideal for our young stallion colts to grow and learn manners from. "No, you have to be LAST to eat, Last to go in the barn. Move away or I WILL bite you HARD. WE are of higher status than you, cute doesn't count" is what they tell them. Our young horses were mannerly, not nippy, pushy, easily accepted being the lowest status, so they did what we told them to! Sure makes things easier in training them!

                I would also make your young horse think his "reason for living" is to WORK. Starts with short training sessions, doing the various steps of learning. He needs some kind of job that makes him tired, but not a picky thing. Western horses ride fences, walk behind cattle to move herds, which is a pretty easy way to build a horse. Young animals get fit gradually, things are done slowly, he can figure a reason to do it "that" way. Drilling on stuff in arenas is pretty boring, especially to a young animal full of energy. The BEST minded stallions I have met learned how to WORK, got tired working. Worked DAILY for quite a long time, before they ever were allowed to think of breeding.

                I came up with some pretty hard-core horsemen, and they didn't accept a stallion as "good or GREAT" by only his looks. He also had to have a good mind, be usable in working conditions, before being bred. And THEN those foals had to have the same good minds, bodies, before he was allowed to be a herd stallion. They cut a LOT of very well bred horses, so there were only a few left to be breeding stallions by the time horse was 6yrs old. They had come thru the "testing process" successfully. Nothing was used for breeding before 5yrs old, AFTER being trained and used. They said horse had to have a MIND to train, before you could develop it. Young horse colts don't have a real mind until about 4yrs, so you SURE don't want to breed them!! Breeding a mare was a BONUS, earned privilege and NOT HIS REASON for being on the ranch or farm.

                Using those stallions in work, made them much better minded to live with, not stupid, hormone activated crazies. They were thinkers, cooperative with good handling. Colt learning might get a little special treatment, tied by himself instead of in the middle of the group for lunch break, but not much else. He accepted that work was his lot in life as he grew and learned, was very cooperative with his people.

                You don't want a colt thinking he is "that special" by avoiding training until he is big and strong. He learns to cooperate by working with him from a young age. Lessons should be kept short, his bones are soft, very short attention span to learn in. I don't think gentle riding, straight lines, walking mostly is harmful to the horse. Not many circles, which are harder on joints of a younger animal. Again, ride the fence lines to check things. Up and down any lanes you have. Maybe work over some poles in the ring, to keep him paying attention. I don't know that I would be driving him with a vehicle then, he doesn't have enough experience yet to suit me. Easier to ride a spook in the saddle, than from a cart seat in the lane.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  I live in Israel, so there are no shows he'd be eligible for. If I can drive him, I have no reason to ride him for years. I'd just like to be out with him. Puffing behind a trotting horse for miles isn't my idea of relaxation :-(
                  Thanks for all the great advice. I thoroughly agree with most of it.
                  He's exceptional for this country & although I'll be keeping him entire, he probably wont be at stud. It's very common culturally here for males to be kept entire (think 50%) though they aren't usually just randomly bred.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X