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Driven dressage and a deviation

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  • Driven dressage and a deviation

    How exactly is a deviation supposed to be driven at the intermediate level. I am a dressage rider, and it looks to be the same as a shallow loop with clear changes of bend from corner to either the midway point of a quarter line or centerline and back to a corner. Yet, the one book I have read says no bend except for at the midway point. Please someone, clarify this for me.

  • #2
    A deviation in driving dressage is not the same as a loop in English dressage. It's more of an arc that comes off the track and then back, with the arc coming 10 meters off the track at the furthest point. SO not a ">", but more of a " ) "

    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


    • #3
      Here is a video that shows it well: There is a deviation at about 1:20

      (I am studying to learn to be able to judge driving dressage, as I have been signed up to judge a competition)
      Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


      • #4
        Um, I don't think a single loop/shallow serpentine (like the one that is ridden at the trot in the late and unlamented T3) is a ridden as a ">" it is ridden with 3 distinct bends and it will be noted if you do not, so maybe more like this:


        (but you know, with enough depth to get it to the 10M mark and straight lines in between the bendy bits)

        But there was a lengthened walk in that test that was ridden as a ">" so tha tmight be what you are thinking of?

        But the driving deviation is interesting, I've been thinking about that as well. It looks like you would ask your horse off the rail at S with a change of track initially, then use the outside half halt so you could maintain that inside bend while lifting the shoulders on to the new track (heading to the quarterline) throughout the loop, drive the shallow loop at the mid point normally to follow the track back to V, then change the bend, put the front axles on V via an outside half halt.

        Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


        • #5
          DMK my keyboard is limited in options...but in the ridden dressage loop, there are straight lines in the loop (bend to come out of corner - straight line - bend at X - straight line- bend at the corner), whereas in the deviation, the loop is one continuous arc, coming off, and returning to the long side: there is no straight line in the loop, and there is a requirement of continuous bend during the loop/deviation. So turn, arc, the video shows.
          Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


          • #6
            It seems like that is more of a function of the size and placement of the respective movements. The deviation start and finish is much closer and shallower than the single loop, plus you are already on a straight line driving so you aren't coming out of one bend to another like you are in riding.
            Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


            • Original Poster

              So I am a solid third level dressage rider/trainer that is currently eyes on the ground for two lovely ladies that do driven dressage. The one asked me about how the deviation should be driven. I explained it as the trot loop at the old t-3. You essentially ride bend to bend to bend and the judge wants to see clear changes of bend. The driven deviation though seems to be with more straight lines in between the bend, and the obvious bend should be at the midway point where you change direction. I am learning, and really want to be giving correct advice. It’s also making me want to take one of my dressage horses over to the driving side.


              • #8
                Well of course you should come over to the way more fun side!

                I had a lesson recently with one who judges and I touched on this question briefly, and I got the feeling it was driven more like the single loop, but it was at the very end of the lesson and while I was asking it, it was in the context of riding the same pattern as the single loop... So through no fault of the judge giving the lesson I may have confused the issue!
                Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                • #9
                  You have it right - it seems like there are straight parts because the arena is 80M long!! But yes, you come off the rail at the letter in the same directon bend as you were on the short side, change bend so when you hit the quarter line - horse should be ON the line, carriage straddling it - you are now bending the opposite way, and then change bend back so you make a nice curve back onto the rail at the letter and continue on around the short side.

                  It should be graceful changes of bend - the T3 test is just more abrupt b/c of the arena size.

                  When I introduced my pony I had to really pay attention to making a much shallower turn off the rail b/c he thought "ok, turning at K, off we go lengthening across the diagonal" which made for a pretty wretched gentle loop. :0

                  One of the tests has you do this with the reins in the left hand - definitely practice with both hands first.


                  • #10
                    SO this website is the one I have been looking at to learn the different tests: their diagrams show the intermediate deviations and show it as a clear arc, but you guys are describing something different. is this website's diagrams wrong?

                    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


                    • #11
                      No, it's not wrong. It's just hard to describe how to drive it and draw that picture. If you look at the diagrams you need to start the deviation by turning off the rail (so you're still bending in the direction you had in the corner)- then you make an arc, changing your bend, and then when you get back on the rail you go back to the true bend.

                      Trust me, when you drive it, that's what happens. The deviation in Int. 1 is hard because it's abrupt. the deviations in the other tests that start in the corner will be judged more on how smoothly and accurately you change the bend because you have time to (theoretically) really get the horse on the "new" outside rein at the top of the arc. Int 1, happens so quickly you sort of just steer.


                      • #12
                        Yes, 1 and 7 have that really short arc so you have to recreate the bend off a straight line, whereas 4 has a deviation that is more like the (late and unlamented) T3 single loop/shallow serpentine, where you are probably still using the bend off the turn up the long side to start your deviation and you can use your third bend as the start of your turn off the deviation and into the corner turn.

                        But for what it is worth, I was going through the omnibus for CTs in my area, looking at what Int test they are using because I would like to do a few intermediate CTs next year (while still focusing on prelim in the DTs/CDEs) and most of the CTs seemed to use 5 (no deviation) or 7 (really short deviation plus introducing the 1 hand turn). So my plan was to avoid all CTs with I-7 as the test since that one looks like it will be more frustrating than a learning/training advancing experience at this stage of the game.
                        Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CHT View Post
                          DMK my keyboard is limited in options...but in the ridden dressage loop, there are straight lines in the loop (bend to come out of corner - straight line - bend at X - straight line- bend at the corner), whereas in the deviation, the loop is one continuous arc, coming off, and returning to the long side: there is no straight line in the loop, and there is a requirement of continuous bend during the loop/deviation. So turn, arc, the video shows.
                          In a dressage, only serpentines with more that 1 loop and of the width of the arena have « straight » moments parallel to the short side.

                          A shallow loop or a single loop don’t, or might have a step of straightening/parallel to the long side close to/at X.

                          Which is what a deviation is. A single loop.

                          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                          Originally posted by LauraKY
                          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                          HORSING mobile training app


                          • #14
                            alibi_18 did you look at the link I posted? That shows something different than a ridden dressage loop. The video I posted matches the diagram I posted, hence my confusion.
                            Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CHT View Post
                              alibi_18 did you look at the link I posted? That shows something different than a ridden dressage loop. The video I posted matches the diagram I posted, hence my confusion.
                              I did look at the link and diagram you posted.

                              And it matches the diagram of a loop in the dressage rules.
                              Check page 19 : (diagram b and c)

                              It doesn’t necessarily start from a corner, but it is the same.

                              Remember that the arenas aren’t the same sizes.

                              40 x 80 for the small arena
                              40 x 100 for the large arena

                              I was confused as well at the beginning because my eye was used to the 20x60 dressage arena.

                              ETA: I’m currently revising the FEI tests where there is plenty of those « deviations ».

                              Ex. Test 3* B HP4

                              KAF : Collected trot (going left rein)
                              FB : 15m deviation
                              BM : 10m deviation

                              It’s 2 loops one after the other where they are judged on bendings.
                              Last edited by alibi_18; Jun. 22, 2019, 09:58 PM.
                              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                              Originally posted by LauraKY
                              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                              HORSING mobile training app