• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Go into debt for a horse???

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by fish View Post
    Yes, training does make better riders, but I would like to submit that we are to a large extent trained by the horses we ride, for better or for worse, just as they are trained by us. That's why Podhajsky wrote *My Horses, My Teachers,* and also why it makes sense for each of us to buy the best horses (for our purposes) that we can afford.
    I apologize for the misuse of quotation marks - usually my english speaking/writing skills are better - I suppose I was getting into a sort of *making quote marks with fingers* sort of attitude to paraphrase my interpretation of the remarks.

    Your comment, however, IMHO, is quite correct. The best horses (for our purposes) THAT WE CAN AFFORD. I think for the vast majority of amateur riders, we HAVE the best horse we can afford. I don't know of anyone who says, "I think I want to do dressage, I have $5K, so I'll go out and buy the LEAST suitable horse to do dressage." But the horse one ends up with may not necessarily be a WB. Appropriateness and suitability are also factors. We make compromises - young horse/old horse, trained/untrained - what is the best I can do for what I am able to pay? Being advised to go into debt to get the supposed better horse - not such a good idea, UNLESS you are so totally focussed on FEI levels and/or winning and/or the team that it becomes a necessity for you. And even then...a risky proposition if you cannot AFFORD to take a loss due to injury or eventual mental or physical unsuitability - like that winning Young Horse competitor referenced by Betsy Steiner that essentially "quit" when he hit second level - those marvelous gaits being a little too difficult for him to contain and he didn't WANT to do it.

    Being told that you won't improve your riding without such a horse is also... I'm trying to find a word.... not quite irrelevant, but something like that if your goals are smaller and perhaps more focussed, as we say (sigh) on the journey rather than on winning per se or reaching FEI levels in the immediate future.

    I am going through the ups and downs of dealing with a supergreen big moving 3.5 year old, purchased at 2.5, unstarted. I am riding at the limits of my ability and holding on by my fingernails. Another horse probably would have been more appropriate or more suitable, BUT... I could not AFFORD a more trained and equally good moving horse. While I may be a little too old to be dealing with a baby horse, I'm also too old to be dealing with an older horse with possible soundness issues - which is probably the only way I could have afforded a decent WB with training. But to imply that one cannot improve as a rider and cannot do good dressage unless one acquires a five-figure WB....I just can't get behind that

    Comment


    • I guess I can see both sides, here. I agree that Ms. Syndor should have phrased it better, and saying that people are "wasting time" with "lesser horses" is unecessarily harsh.

      I definitely feel I am learning more on a horse with some training (not at rarified GP level, but fairly solid 2nd Level, willing/able to go on the bit if I give her half a chance, etc.) than if I were taking lessons on a greener horse. I also ride several other horses who range from no dressage training at all, just solid trail horse to a horse who is regularly doing 1st Level dressage and jumping 3'6" with one of his other riders. They teach me a lot, and I can apply what I learn in my lessons, but I feel it's important for me to spend at least part of my time with a horse who knows what it is doing. I feel the quality of the horse's gaits are pretty irrelevant at this point in my education - in fact, a really fancy mover with a ton of suspension might well be more than I could sit.

      It does seem like a lot of people get into a Green+Green (to dressage at least, and often to riding in general) situation, and I think it's tough even with weekly or twice weekly lessons to make much progress. I wouldn't say that they are wasting their time and money exactly, but taking lessons on a horse with more training while the trainer gets the horse going better would probably get them to the point where they can work as a team a lot faster.
      Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.

      Comment


      • I have a green horse and I'm a green dressage rider. I'm very forward riding with forward leg, short iron, use to using leg totally different etc...

        My horse and I started about 1 1/2 months ago and its amazing the improvement we have both made. I have began to learn to sit up, have long legs, use calf more than heel, and how to get my horse to bend properly as well as he is learning the same. It is very hard but its amazing when you can say I DID THIS MYSELF (of course with trainer ). It's such an accomplishment when we get something right and I'm so proud of my horse and myself when it is right. When its wrong I don't blame the horse (unless he is just being a spaz which sometimes he can be) because usually I'm asking wrong. My trainer has got on him a few times to get him to understand the cues but thats it. We now can do shoulder in, loops, bend in our corners without loosing the shoulder or haunches (on a horse that use to be VERY stiff), shoulder fore, accept the bit, freewalk almost straight , lengthen on the diagnol, and have proper 20 M circles not free form anymore. It's amazing what we've done in the past 1 1/2 months but it has taken ALOT of hard work and dedication from myself and my horse. I paid 2500.00 for him (or should I say my husband did ) and he may be able to take me to 3rd level. I will have to post another video of him for you guys its amazing the difference!!! I think that if you have the time and dedication its worth doing it yourself for the feeling you get when you do it right is amazing.
        Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

        Comment


        • I do understand when a talented rider realizes they've reached their diligent horse's limit and sadly will need to upgrade if they want to move upward in dressage. A more advanced, more talented horse with potential to reach even higher will cost a bundle.

          However, I don't agree with some dressage people who are unwilling to work hard and learn, but think they can 'buy' their way up the levels by spending tons of $$ on advanced horses. Often, those talented horses are just held back by the people who aren't willing to work hard to earn their place on that horse's back or that dressage testing level.

          I am a firm believer that a well taught rider can go far with a well bred, athletic horse (of many breeds) who shows interest in the sport dressage. Phantom, my 'imported warmblood', is actually an elegant Morgan from Canada. I joke that he was a 5 yr. old weanling because he didn't know much about human creatures or their world. His only job at the breeder's was to raise weanlings. The breeder said he would often stop playing and just look at the horizon like he wanted more.....be careful what you ask for! He wasn't even started under saddle and stood at all of 14½ hands at the time. But I've always been good at teaching horses and I could see Phantom's dressage potential in his natural movement. He grew up and filled out to a more mature looking 15 hands now. Since I'm all of 5'1" myself, I make him look BIG!!

          Back in the upper Midwest years ago, I was very fortunate to have studied under a USDF judge, who himself studied in Germany (I'll just call him 'Bill'). Bill was a wonderful instructor back then and taught me well from the back of my last horse (Arab/TB/QH adrenalin junkie!!). Now I've taken that knowledge and am teaching Phantom, who is proving that I was right about his dressage potential. I love it when european warmblood owners say "Wow" as they watch us work. I'll take my 15 hand elegant Morgan any day over the huge ones! And since I am willing to do the training, he was a bargain $$!!!!!!
          One fabulous horse makes a soul complete!

          Comment

          Working...
          X