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Any AAs who have a sponsor? Rules? How did you do it?

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  • Any AAs who have a sponsor? Rules? How did you do it?

    If one were considering approaching a local/regional business regarding sponsorship of a particular horse -

    1) Are there any rules/regulations about sponsorship in the USEF or USDF rules? I haven't had luck finding anything on either website.

    2) How did you approach the business in question? What did you offer? What did you ask for?

    TIA for any suggestions or other info

  • #2
    You can't have a sponsor or you are no longer an AA. Thems the rules!

    USEF GR 1306
    GR1306 Amateur Status.
    1. Regardless of one’s equestrian skills and/or accomplishments, a person is an amateur for all competitions conducted under Federation rules who after his/her 18th birthday, as defined in GR101, has not engaged in any of the following activities which would make him/her a professional. Exception: In the Dressage Division, individuals are only eligible to compete as amateurs from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach age 22. See DR119.3. In the Reining Division, amateur status will be determined per Reining Division Non Pro Conditions; see amateur status RN105. (For professionals wishing to be re-classified as amateurs, see GR1308.2a):
    a. Accepts remuneration for riding, driving, showing, training, schooling or conducting clinics or seminars. b. Accepts remuneration for giving riding or driving lessons, lessons in showmanship, instructions in equitation or horse training. (Persons acting as counselors at summer camps, who are not hired in the exclusive capacity of riding instructors are excluded and persons giving instruction and training to the handicapped).
    c. Accepts remuneration for employment in other capacity (e.g., secretary, bookkeeper, veterinarian, groom, farrier) and gives instruction, rides, drives, shows, trains or schools horses, other than horses actually owned or leased by him/her, when his/her employer or a member of the family of said employer or a corporation which a member of his/her family controls, owns, boards or trains said horses.
    d. Accepts remuneration for the use of his or her name, photograph or other form of personal association as a horseman in connection with any advertisement or article (including but not limited to clothing, product, equipment, etc.) to be sold.
    © USEF 2010 GR199
    COMPETITION PARTICIPANTS AND ASSOCIATED INDIVIDUALS
    e. Accepts prize money in equitation or showmanship classes. Prize money may be accepted by amateur riders in Dressage. f. Rides, drives or shows, any horse for which he/she or a member of his/her family or a corporation which a member of his/her family controls, receives remuneration for boarding, training, riding, driving or showing. (A family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer).
    g. Givesinstructiontoanypersonorrides,drivesorshowsan yhorse,forwhichactivity another person in his/her family or corporation which a member of his/her family controls will receive remuneration for the activity. (A family member of a trainer may not absolve themselves of this rule by entering into a lease or any other agreement for a horse owned by a client of the trainer).
    h. Accepts remuneration, as defined in GR1306.2d, for selling horses/ponies, acts as a paid agent in the sale of horses/ponies or takes horses/ponies on consignment for the purpose of sale or training other than those owned wholly or in part by him/her or by a member of his/her family or farm/ranch/syndicate/partnership/corporation which he/she or a member of his/her family controls.
    i. Advertising professional services such as training or giving lessons by way of business cards, print ads, or internet. j. For Amateurs in Jumper Sections, see JP117. k. For Amateurs in Eventing sections, see EV Appendix 3 - Participation in Horse Trials.
    2. The following activities do not affect the amateur status of a person who is otherwise qualified:
    a. The writing of books or articles pertaining to horses. b. Accepting remuneration for officiating as a judge, steward, technical delegate, course designer, announcer or participating as a TV commentator, or accepting bona fide remuneration for services as a veterinarian, groom, farrier, tack shop operator or breeder, or for accepting bona fide remuneration for boarding services. c. Accepting reimbursement for any expenses directly related to the horse (i.e. farrier/vet bills, entries) however, does not include travel,hotel, room and board or equipment. d. Accepting a token of appreciation, other than money, for riding, driving or showing in halter/in hand. (Note: Horse board, prize money, partial support or objects of more than $300 are considered remuneration, not small tokens of appreciation). (Also note: accepting any amount of money, whether more or less than $300, is considered remuneration.) Prize money won by an amateur-owner rider/driver/handler in any class (other than equitation or showmanship) is not considered remuneration. e. Having the occupation of veterinarian, groom, farrier or owning a tack shop or breeding or boarding stable in itself, does not affect the amateur status of a person who is otherwise qualified. f. Any person who is serving an internship for college credit through his/her respective, accredited college program, and who has never held professional status, can accept reimbursement for expenses without profit.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.

    Comment


    • #3
      Look in the USEF rules, section GR1306, regarding what you can or cannot do as an amateur. Escpecially section 1d and 2c.

      You may be reimbursed expenses directly related to the horse (but none of your expenses), and you cannot be used in any advertising by that business.

      Check out the rule and see what applies to you.
      Last edited by yaya; Jul. 4, 2010, 10:30 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Usually, a sponsor wants to use their association with you to help them SELL something.

        That would bring in GR1306.1.d
        d. Accepts remuneration for the use of his or her name, photograph or other form of
        personal association as a horseman in connection with any advertisement or article
        (including but not limited to clothing, product, equipment, etc.) to be sold.
        It is hard to think of a sponsorship that wouldn't involve "personal association as a horseman" with something being sold.
        Last edited by Janet; Jul. 4, 2010, 06:18 PM.
        Janet

        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by yaya View Post
          Look in the USEF rules, section GR1306, regarding what you can or cannot do as an amateur. Escpecially section 1a and 2c.

          You may be reimbursed expenses directly related to the horse (but none of your expenses), and you cannot be used in any advertising by that business.

          Check out the rule and see what applies to you.
          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            So, did I read that right... An equine vet can't be an AA?

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes equine vets can be amateurs. See 2a in the post above re things that do NOT affect amateur status.
              We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........

              Comment


              • #8
                If someone buys a horse, pays for the horse, and all the showing fees, etc., and all you do is ride it, you're still an AA. If you are being paid or reimbursed, then you're no longer an AA.

                I always have to wonder how a judge can still be an AA. Seems someone in power made that one happen. Really, if you're a paid judge, you are definitely a professional!
                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                  I always have to wonder how a judge can still be an AA. Seems someone in power made that one happen. Really, if you're a paid judge, you are definitely a professional!
                  That rule is from back when Olympic riders all had to be AAs. Same Olympic AAs were quite welcome to be judges

                  Judges are paid quite minimally and some are not paid at all like in Europe. For judging upcomming WEG games judges are paid $100 per day!!!! Most judges judge only 1 show per month. So there is not really much $ in judging to become a Pro if you don't want to be a Pro Trainer, but enjoy judging.

                  I know several AA judges who are really good judges but have their full time job not related to horses. There is no reason for them to become a Pro.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dressage Art View Post

                    Judges are paid quite minimally and some are not paid at all like in Europe. For judging upcomming WEG games judges are paid $100 per day!!!! Most judges judge only 1 show per month. So there is not really much $ in judging to become a Pro if you don't want to be a Pro Trainer, but enjoy judging.

                    .
                    Maybe in dressage that's true.
                    In the H/J world judges are paid VERY well and often judge 3 or more times a month. Same is true for stewards but they may work 6 times a month or more in an area with a lot of one day shows in the summer. And you get expenses paid.
                    Many H/J judges really do judge as a full time job.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      But a judge is NOT giving instruction, training someone else's horse, showing someone else's horse for remuneration. That is what makes one a professional horseman.

                      Being a judge or a steward for that matter is the same as owning a boarding farm, or being a veterinarian. They aren't violating the rule, which says they must be training, teaching, schooling, showing horses for compensation to be considered a professional. Why is this so hard for people to process?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But a judge is not being paid to ride, drive, show, train, or school.
                        Janet

                        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No one said judges were breaking the rules as they are written. The thought was that if you're expert enough to be a judge, and give riders opinions on how to improve their scores, it's pretty much like a trainer/instructor--so why are they allowed to maintain an AA status?
                          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                            No one said judges were breaking the rules as they are written. The thought was that if you're expert enough to be a judge, and give riders opinions on how to improve their scores, it's pretty much like a trainer/instructor--so why are they allowed to maintain an AA status?
                            They don't in hunter and jumper land. The only thing a judge can tell you is their opinion of why they did or didn't like you. They are not instructing you, you are not paying them to instruct you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                              No one said judges were breaking the rules as they are written. The thought was that if you're expert enough to be a judge, and give riders opinions on how to improve their scores, it's pretty much like a trainer/instructor--so why are they allowed to maintain an AA status?
                              They are NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                In what reality are they not supposed to do that, Janet? In the comments, they let you know why your score was low, which teaches you what you need to do to improve it. They are also experts--and paid experts.

                                I understand back in the day when keeping the ammie status was a big deal, it's not such an issue these days for international competition now that the Olympics allow professionals. I just think judges are pros and should not be allowed to maintain an AA.
                                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Velvet View Post
                                  In what reality are they not supposed to do that, Janet? In the comments, they let you know why your score was low, which teaches you what you need to do to improve it. They are also experts--and paid experts.
                                  They are supposed to tell you WHY you got the score. But they are NOT SUPPOSED to tell you "how to fix it",
                                  Janet

                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                    They are supposed to tell you WHY you got the score. But they are NOT SUPPOSED to tell you "how to fix it",
                                    Besides that would probably take more paper than the scribe provides for comments.
                                    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Seriously, you can't figure out how to fix it if they tell you what the problem is?

                                      What judges do you ride in front of?
                                      "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by S A McKee View Post
                                        Maybe in dressage that's true.
                                        In the H/J world judges are paid VERY well and often judge 3 or more times a month. Same is true for stewards but they may work 6 times a month or more in an area with a lot of one day shows in the summer. And you get expenses paid.
                                        Many H/J judges really do judge as a full time job.
                                        Most dressage judges loose $ when they judge. $400 per day + expenses is the average pay for the dressage judge. Most pros earn more than $400 per day for their lessons + they don't have to waste time for traveling to and from judging venue, sometimes it burns a day before and a day after as well. If judge can judge locally, they can make about $40 per hour. But if they have to travel and they do not get paid for traveling (it can be 3 hour drive or even longer plane flight) then they might earn $400 for almost 1/2 a day of travel to, + full day of judging and + 1/2 a day of travel from show. Then it comes to $20 per hour.

                                        Everybody wants Grand Prix judges and do you know any GP trainer who charges $20-$40 per hour? I don't... I don't even know any FEI trainer who charges less than $50 per 45 minute lesson.

                                        It’s much better $ for Pros to give lessons and clinics than judge.

                                        I know some judges who judge several shows per month, but they do not even ride anymore and some don't even own horses anymore b/c they are out of town every weekend. Those judges also don't show anymore... but then some people complain that those judges lost their touch with horses and etc, etc... but if a judge wants to show, they can't possibly be out of town every weekend judging. It’s hard to juggle all those things.

                                        Comment

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