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Flamesuit on "whats wrong with the youth program in the USA ?"

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  • Flamesuit on "whats wrong with the youth program in the USA ?"

    I know you have some very good Youngriders in the States and Canada, with some very good horses. But what could be the reason that these YR's never make a decend score at the worldchampionships. The USA is the #3/4 country in the dressage-world, but when it comes down to the YR they mostly score at the lowest part of the list.

  • #2
    Another question-how does the YR dressage compare with the YR in h/j? It seems to me that there are far, far more h/j young riders. But even then, I'm not sure that they stack up favorably internationally, for different reasons.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

    Comment


    • #3
      What youth program?

      Therein lies the problem. There is no "youth program" here in the States. Young riders who learn dressage are few and far between. I'd venture to say 80% of our kids ride hunter or western. Maybe 15% do Pony club, 4-H, or eventing.... very very few do dressage.

      And, since we have a real dearth of super good dressage instructors here, its highly unlikely that a motivated young dressage rider is going to find the right instructor.

      It is just in the recent past that our adults have become competitive on the world stage... it will take another generation before our kids get there.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by rileyt View Post
        What youth program?

        Therein lies the problem. There is no "youth program" here in the States. Young riders who learn dressage are few and far between. I'd venture to say 80% of our kids ride hunter or western. Maybe 15% do Pony club, 4-H, or eventing.... very very few do dressage.

        And, since we have a real dearth of super good dressage instructors here, its highly unlikely that a motivated young dressage rider is going to find the right instructor.

        It is just in the recent past that our adults have become competitive on the world stage... it will take another generation before our kids get there.
        But look at the score-list (this is the third year we have these worldchampionships YR) and you will notice that many minor countries like Latvia, Argentina etc. are doing better. So I stick to your first remark, "you don't have a youth program". But isn't this where it all starts ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Not enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$
          Too many MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILES
          ... _. ._ .._. .._

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Could it be

            Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
            Not enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$
            Too many MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILES
            But what about Australia, Russia, Argentina etc...

            Could it be that the selection procedure in the USA isn't right ? Just asking.

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            • #7
              What do YOU think, Theo? Give us your solution to the problem.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rutgerjan View Post
                But what about Australia, Russia, Argentina etc...

                Well what about them?


                Seems to me you're just stirring. (again....................yawn)
                ... _. ._ .._. .._

                Comment


                • #9
                  They don't have hunters in Europe. Dressage is big in Europe. That is part of the difference.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by atr View Post
                    What do YOU think, Theo? Give us your solution to the problem.
                    Focus muchhhhhhhh more on the Junior and Youngriders. I just watched part1,2 and 3 of a reality serie broadcasted in the USA called The Next American Equestrian Star (Idols ?). This was certainly a start, but next month we have the same kind of program here in Holland but we have replaced Robert Dover (50+ ?) by Laurens van Lieren (20+). Next to this: the world's biggest sponsor in Equestrian sports (Rabobank) spends 90% of their budget on pony, juniors and youngriders. In the country where the sky is the limit it shouldn't be so difficult to find sponsors

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by ponyjumper4 View Post
                      They don't have hunters in Europe. Dressage is big in Europe. That is part of the difference.
                      When you keep saying this you will never reach the ultimate goal. In Argentina Polo is the biggest sport, in Russia... blahblahblah

                      The Dutch were beaten by the Germans for over 50 years, but this year the Dutch won gold both in jumping and dressage. It's never a short time struggle but always a long time battle.

                      And let's have a look at speed-skating, is this a big sport in the USA ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        US Has More Sports to Choose From!

                        Theo,

                        Equestrian sports are pretty far down in the popularity rankings as far as sports in US. Basketball/Football/Soccer/Baseball/Golf/Tennis/Swimming/Skiing all are more popular and are backed by the big $$$.

                        Check out the sports with big $$$$$ college scholorships (Not Equestrian and for sure not Dressage or Speed Skating )

                        As far as Equestrian sports: Western (Rodeo/WP/Team (cattle) Roping) disciplines are probably more popular than the English disciplines.
                        Within the English disciplines H/J and Eventing are far and away more popular than Dressage.

                        And then, don't forget Fox Hunting!
                        And Endurance Riding and CompetitiveTrail Riding which are really becoming popular!

                        USA is a big country that has a huge number of sports for adults and youth to choose from!

                        Check out the thread Denny Emerson (Olympic Gold Eventer) started over on the Eventing Forum : "Boys in Eventing?" asking why there are so few boys in equestrian sports in US...

                        Might answer some of your questions.
                        Last edited by claire; Dec. 14, 2007, 06:10 PM. Reason: Forgot Fox Hunting (JSwan will Kill Me) LOL!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Dutch would be standouts in the NFL and MLB no doubt?
                          ... _. ._ .._. .._

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why does it matter if riders from a particular country win or not? I never did understand the big deal about having to be a "world power" in some sport. I am sure the horses don't give a crap about winning and would rather NOT get on a plane and fly across the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean. I think what we do to them and how we drag them all around the world is ridiculous.

                            I think corruption ensues when money gets into any sport. I wish the corporate sponsors would stay out of it.

                            Who CARES if the US rider was toward the bottom? Maybe she wasn't as good a rider or didn't have as good a horse as the others. Her test wasn't as good. BIG DEAL. I hope she had fun doing what she did. I think it's much more important for kids to have fun (like in Pony Club) with their horses rather than worry about WINNING all the time--and it's ridiculous to tell a kid or all the kids in the country that something is WRONG with the youth program just because they didn't win. I think in Europe it might be worse than Little League or Soccer Moms.

                            I am the mother of a wonderful, brilliant girl who went through Pony Club, had a GP schoolmaster that was fabulous, got her C-2 rating, had some great experiences, and graduated from HS at age 17. She then proceeded to get into a first-class school, early decision, where she had to STUDY (Johns Hopkins Cellular and Molecular Biology), and worked her butt off to get fabulous grades there. She is working in a lab at the medical school that does research concerning HIV. She wants to be a research veterinarian or veterinary pathologist. She just was accepted at one veterinary school and got an interview at another, a combined PhD and VMD program. And I bet she will at least get interviews (if not accepted) at ALL the vet schools she applied to. Knock on wood...

                            SHE'S ON HER WAY!!! And growing up among horses certainly was part of her excellent preparation for real life. There are lots of kids who realize that riding is a fun and important pastime, but that there are other things in life, too. And I hardly think that a large percentage of kids who ride will make a living at it.

                            So please--don't imply that something is WRONG if riders from a particular country don't win. Our children are just FINE. I hardly think winning medals in dressage or ANY sport is "the ultimate goal". My daughter is helping to find a cure for AIDS. What's your kid doing?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              From my experience, as soon as a sport becomes large and "important" it becomes less of a sport and more of a show for big money. I hope that my SPORT does NOT go this way. Sadly it seems to be doing just that in Europe.
                              ... _. ._ .._. .._

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                OMG

                                Here we go again. And maybe these four words are also the answer.

                                So let me refrase my question :

                                Allthough I live on the other side of the big blue ocean I know that you have some wonderfull YRiders and horses in the USA (I know at least five who can battle with the better riders in Europe). But for some reasons the USA don't want to send them to the world championships, or they send the ones who aren't prepaired for a crowded arena or..or... In casu what is wrong in the system ?

                                And to asnwer some other questions and remarks. When Ice-speed skating isn't populair in the USA why are men like Ched Hedrick and Shannie Davis suddenly at the top 5 during the world championships ?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by rebecca yount View Post
                                  Maybe she wasn't as good a rider or didn't have as good a horse as the others. Her test wasn't as good. BIG DEAL. I hope she had fun doing what she did. I think it's much more important for kids to have fun (like in Pony Club) with their horses rather than worry about WINNING all the time--and it's ridiculous to tell a kid or all the kids in the country that something is WRONG with the youth program just because they didn't win. I think in Europe it might be worse than Little League or Soccer Moms.
                                  Thank-you! I have seen my share of parents pushing kids in Equestrian too. Many learn to hate it. Horses should be fun. A YR on one of my stallion's babies qualified for the YR Area Championships, Scored & placed well qualifying for the Regional level, but did not go. That is fine. She had a great time.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by rutgerjan View Post
                                    Here we go again.

                                    Shouldn't that be "Here YOU go again?


                                    Obviously it is not important to Americans, as a nation, to have the "BEST" team of dressage riders in the world. Sorry you cannot understand that. Doesn't that make the US team ranking seem more of an accomplishment compared to all that money invested by other countries?
                                    ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Well, differences....

                                      Argentina and Russia are huge countries, so the many miles does not count.

                                      In other countries Dressage is where you start riding, there is no jumping for quiet some time when you start. That's the goal for later, get good enough so they let you jump. There is no either or, it's both for a long time.

                                      Ammi rule. it blows. In other countries there is no such thing, you can ride what ever is thrown your way, show it and get a little compensation for it. The playing field is leveled by putting in restrictions, so you don't find yourself competing with the local pro on his best horse for a second level medal, but he can break out a greeny and you get to see him/her ride...

                                      Liability and availability. it's not as bad as in the states, so you don't have to worry so much if your catch rider falls off. Quiet a few people I know have started on borrowed horses, my sister included...it worked out to the mutual benefits of both owner and rider...the one got miles on the horse, the other experience. here you have to own a horse to do serious showing. Of course with the monies tied into ownership, the exposure to other horses is limited. Your one horse goes lame, it might be years before you get another.


                                      and trainers, and talented mounts...and money....
                                      Originally posted by BigMama1
                                      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                      GNU Terry Prachett

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                        Shouldn't that be "Here YOU go again?

                                        Obviously it is not important to Americans, as a nation, to have the "BEST" team of dressage riders in the world.
                                        Even on the COTH forums, Dressage ranks #3.

                                        Comment

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