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Our favorite classical master showing 4th as an AA...

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  • Our favorite classical master showing 4th as an AA...

    Scores are slow to update today, but it appears he signed up for 3-1 and 4-1 with Carpathia as an adult amateur at the BCHP today, despite advertising clinic and training opportunities to the masses.

    http://www.foxvillage.com/fvdshowres...sh=4954&hs=262

  • #2
    http://gph.is/19yQDcd
    "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

    Graphite/Pastel Portraits

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh dear....but he is not on the USDF AA list. I am confused. HOW can this be?
      "The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli"

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      • #4
        Ulf Wadeborn was the judge. Maestro will get a blue ribbon in 4-1 because he was the only rider. Do you have to declare yourself as an amateur? I've been out of the show world for some time.

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        • #5
          yes you do. you register as an Ammy with the federation and the member card is proof for show registration

          it could be a digital error, though I doubt it
          Last edited by hoopoe; Jun. 5, 2017, 09:16 AM.
          _\\]
          -- * > hoopoe
          Procrastinate NOW
          Introverted Since 1957

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Joanne View Post
            Ulf Wadeborn was the judge. Maestro will get a blue ribbon in 4-1 because he was the only rider. Do you have to declare yourself as an amateur? I've been out of the show world for some time.
            You have to choose AA or Open division when you register.

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            • #7
              I think he scratched. I now remember that PA had bad weather yesterday and he was due to ride in the morning.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by NJRider View Post
                Oh dear....but he is not on the USDF AA list. I am confused. HOW can this be?
                Well, sadly, violations happen ALL THE TIME! I wrote an article for my GMO newsletter last year after seeing so many blatant violations showing as AA. Assistant Trainers with the title of "Groom" (but they ride half the client horses in the barn); small time trainers who figure they aren't really getting money (or much money), even though they get housing and free board in exchange for training services; and some trainers who just don't do that many lessons, and figure since they have a "real job" and do lessons and coaching on the side, they are not professionals.

                And USEF doesn't really enforce the rule. If you want to file a complaint against someone who is violating the rule, you have to PAY USEF a fee. Someone in our area actually did that a few years ago! Generally, it is all "honor system". And we all know not all people are honorable.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joanne View Post
                  I think he scratched. I now remember that PA had bad weather yesterday and he was due to ride in the morning.
                  Sometimes any excuse will do.
                  And would he get a ribbon, if he's the only competitor, but didn't finish or was considered off course because what he considers a half pass or half pirouette.. isn't one. Not even close?
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post

                    Sometimes any excuse will do.
                    And would he get a ribbon, if he's the only competitor, but didn't finish or was considered off course because what he considers a half pass or half pirouette.. isn't one. Not even close?
                    He has to finish the test to get a ribbon. He can't scratch, be eliminated, or no-show and still ribbon. But he wouldn't be off course with a bad HP, he would just get a poor score.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post

                      He has to finish the test to get a ribbon. He can't scratch, be eliminated, or no-show and still ribbon. But he wouldn't be off course with a bad HP, he would just get a poor score.
                      You're right... need more coffee.
                      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

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                      • #12
                        Can judges eliminate people who make so many errors that it's obvious they don't know the test?

                        efited to add: a Big name judge in another equestrian discipline told me one time he was showing as a youth and was the only person in the class and got a second place ribbon because the judge didn't think the quality was enough for a blue ribbon even with only one entry.

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                        • #13
                          Up here you can be the only rider in a class and not win. There are minimum scores required in order for a ribbon to be awarded.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                            There are minimum scores required in order for a ribbon to be awarded.
                            Oh, that is brilliant. I wish that happened more, in every discipline.


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                            • #15
                              every moooove you make, every step you take, we'll be watching youuuuuuuu.......

                              I find this fascination with NP sort of weird, but you guys sure stay on top of it. Lord help him if he falsifies his documents! all hell will rein down (which is good in a sense) but sort of stalkerish.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
                                Can judges eliminate people who make so many errors that it's obvious they don't know the test?
                                That is a basic USEF rule, and the answer is YES. But there is a difference between an error and doing a crappy job. So if a movement is suppose to be a half pass, and the rider just rides a diagonal line, no bend, no crossing, it is NOT an error, it is a bad half pass - the rider is on course, but the half pass lacks bend and crossing - it might be scored as a 2 or 3. Same with a pirouette that is ridden as a small circle - it is not an error, but it scores a 2 or 3 - heck these might even end up as a 1 if the horse's gaits are degraded and the horse is hollow - but they still are NOT errors! If you are showing, it is an important distinction to understand.

                                Three errors are elimination - at the FEI level, TWO errors are elimination. Before elimination, each error costs points (2 for the first, 4 for the second at the national levels). An error is either "Off Course", or "error of test" - such as posting when sitting trot is required, or lack of salute (both are examples given in the rule book). Lack of bend, not on the aids, bouncing seat, lack of collection - all of these result in lowering of the individual (and collective) scores. So if he memorizes the test and goes the correct directions on the correct lines of travel, and simply lacks the ability to do the movements with any degree of quality, he will score poorly, but not be off course.

                                It is possible to score in the 40s, especially when you get up to the higher levels. Heck, I had a horse running away with me - bolting (there were outside issues going on that heavily contributed to it - a horse cast in a trailer next to the ring) and I kept the horse on the line of travel (barely - my friends couldn't believe I managed to stay in the ring) - and the judge simply scored those movements with 1s... It happens! I would be very interested in scribing for such a ride - always interested in how a judge handles a difficult-to-score situation!

                                Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                                Up here you can be the only rider in a class and not win. There are minimum scores required in order for a ribbon to be awarded.
                                We have a few show managers who use to state that in their show premiums, but no one does anymore. The USEF rules state that the winner is the one with the highest percentage in the class. Except at Championship/Regional Ch shows - they may have minimum score requirements for a Champion/Reserve Ch placing (57%). I don't know if this is a rule change - I might ask the TD at the next show I'm at, since I'm curious now!

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                                  Up here you can be the only rider in a class and not win. There are minimum scores required in order for a ribbon to be awarded.
                                  Yup. 60% or above to get a first place ribbon, 57-59.9% for second place.

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                                  • #18
                                    This is just wrong the way this crowd is always trashing this guy on the web, and it's wrong that the Moderator is allowing it. If you did the same thing to some participating coth member, you would be reported.

                                    It really irks me big time the way you guys go after this person, because he really has not done anything so bad to deserve it. So he exaggerates his ability or even lies. So what, so do a lot trainers and so do a lot of posters that claim they do or have done things they haven't.

                                    If and when this fellow does show, I do not think he will be the embarassment that all of you are hoping for.
                                    Last edited by ToN Farm; Jul. 24, 2017, 05:14 PM. Reason: Deleted statement about needing to pay a fee for the AA card.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by ToN Farm View Post
                                      This is just wrong the way this crowd is always trashing this guy on the web, and it's wrong that the Moderator is allowing it. If you did the same thing to some participating coth member, you would be reported.

                                      You do not have to list AA or Open on your entry blank. It defaults to Open if you don't. If you list AA, you should have paid the extra fee for the AA status. I'm betting that this guy didn't know that.

                                      It really irks me big time the way you guys go after this person, because he really has not done anything so bad to deserve it. So he exaggerates his ability or even lies. So what, so do a lot trainers and so do a lot of posters that claim they do or have done things they haven't.

                                      If and when this fellow does show, I do not think he will be the embarassment that all of you are hoping for.
                                      Actually, if a USEF/USDF recognised show splits classes (and/or placings) into Open and Amateur divisions, or if you are riding in a Regional Ch qualifying class, you WILL be asked to specify which division you belong in. If you don't specify, you'll be entered in Open whether you have an ammy card or not.

                                      Also there is no fee for USEF members to declare themselves amateurs. There is only a fee if you are not a member and want an amateur card for competition purposes.

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                                      • #20
                                        There's a woman in SE VA that has scored in the 40s & 50s at GP and is the only one in the class. She then puts her blue ribbons on FB and announces she will now be teaching. Hopefully people will be smart enough to watch her ride or a video of her riding before taking lessons.

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