• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Big movers killing dressage star fantasies

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Big movers killing dressage star fantasies

    Has anyone ridden a great big moving horse and then kinda lowered their standards a bit / gave up their dreams of being a dressage superstar when confronted with what it is really like? This is going to make me sound like such an underachiever but - when I finally had a chance to sit on an advanced horse, who was a big, old-style tank of a Hanoverian, I got a taste of what my "dreams" were all about, and what they would require of me in terms of athleticism and just general skill.

    So, midway through my ride with me fumbling around up there, unable to get a canter depart, Mr. Big Advanced Horse came out of a corner and took off across the diagonal coming in a huge extended trot, during which I was simultaneously praying for my life trying to keep up, and thanking the angels for a few moments of something so glorious. Then he just kind of boiled over and started bucking and farting and playing because clearly he had decided to take over the ride.

    It was a mess. I was a mess. I was thankful for the experience. But that day I kinda reached the point where I realized the enormous gap between how I rode and what I was aiming at, and decided I was perfectly ok riding something less powerful.


  • #2
    Don't give up. It takes time to learn to ride the big movers. It's worth every sore muscle!
    Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Awww, thanks, SillyHorse. I'm still in the game, just not the big game, trying to get better. I also have secret outrageous fantasies of being a grand prix jumping superstar, and killing the XC phase in a four star event. I tell you what, I have a lot of respect for riders at the top levels. In my fantasies I'm doing all this on a big, fancy horse who is hot hot hot. Like they say, the journey is the reward!

      Editing to add - I hope I did come off sounding sorry for myself in my first post. It was written with a smile. I feel lucky and thankful every day I get to swing a leg over.

      Comment


      • #4
        Three stories

        Years ago a friend went to try an upper level horse. Not a super star mover, but amateur suitable. Her experience was similar to the OP's. The trot was so big she lost her stirrups. That made the horse not only canter, but start tempi changes while she sat there trying to get her stirrups back and not look like too much of an idiot.

        Also years ago, my then dressage trainer had a student show his former young rider horse in a Training Level test. Again horse was not a fancy, fancy horse and was, in fact, a palomino quarter horse type. Whatever test the kid was doing apparently started out in a similar geometric pattern as the PSG test the horse had done in the past. So, instead of just trotting across the diagonal, the horse extended. The kid started bouncing around, quite understandably, and the horse got annoyed, took off, and escaped the confines of the dressage ring. So we had palomino horse running around the outside of the dressage ring (but inside of the larger ring in which the dressage ring was set) and both the trainer and the judge (Hilda Gurney, FWIW) frantically yelling at him to stop. I don't think they ever tried that again.

        Even more years ago my mom and a friend went in together on a horse that they had seen advertised in, I think, The Valley Green Sheet. Horse was advertised as a decent-level dressage horse and, IIRC, was priced at about $400. This was a long time ago. Ginger was a Morgan cross mare with a giant head, a good-sized body, and very short legs. But she did all the lateral work and we all got our first experience riding that. Someone had also installed a Spanish Walk at some point and periodically she would decide that she had been cued to do this (we never figured out what the cue was). There was no cue to stop the Spanish Walk, so you were pretty much stuck doing that until Ginger was tired of doing it.

        So, OP, you are not alone.
        The Evil Chem Prof

        Comment


        • #5
          Unfortunately, yes. I have had two I ended up selling because they were more than I felt comfortable riding. My current guy has the big movement in him, but he also looks good turned down a notch, so hopefully we can squeak by on not quite full power while I get used to it.

          But in general, looking at the movement being rewarded in the showring means this current guy will probably be my last dressage horse. I can't ride what they want in the ring.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Peggy View Post
            Three stories

            Also years ago, my then dressage trainer had a student show his former young rider horse in a Training Level test. Again horse was not a fancy, fancy horse and was, in fact, a palomino quarter horse type. Whatever test the kid was doing apparently started out in a similar geometric pattern as the PSG test the horse had done in the past. So, instead of just trotting across the diagonal, the horse extended. The kid started bouncing around, quite understandably, and the horse got annoyed, took off, and escaped the confines of the dressage ring. So we had palomino horse running around the outside of the dressage ring (but inside of the larger ring in which the dressage ring was set) and both the trainer and the judge (Hilda Gurney, FWIW) frantically yelling at him to stop. I don't think they ever tried that again.
            Ha! Love the PSG Palomino story

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ganesha View Post

              Ha! Love the PSG Palomino story
              It was epic. Hilda came out of the judge's stand and was standing in the path outside the dressage ring with her arms outstretched yelling "whoa Tumble!" while the trainer was positioned in a similar stance elsewhere on the path.

              This was also the show were nearly the entire barn got food poisoning from the lunch provided at the show. I was spared because I showed so early that I was gone by lunch, as was the person ferrying horses back and forth between the barn and the show. But everyone else got sick and the people who were there only on Sunday knew they were doomed when the people that were there on Saturday started getting sick on Sunday afternoon. Good times at the Fullerton Recreational Riders ring.
              The Evil Chem Prof

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ganesha View Post
                It was a mess. I was a mess. I was thankful for the experience. But that day I kinda reached the point where I realized the enormous gap between how I rode and what I was aiming at, and decided I was perfectly ok riding something less powerful.
                First off, you are not alone, not by a long shot. The first time I sat on a true upper level horse, I could not get him to walk. At all. He just stood there, no matter how much leg I added, how many noises I made, nothing. Eventually, I learned that I was blocking with my seat and tipping forward a little and that wasn't acceptable to him but seriously? Could Not Walk! And let's not talk about all those flying changes the first time I managed to get to the canter ... apparently my one leg is less steady than the other and he read that as a request for a change.

                It was humbling and eye opening and even after months of riding him, I couldn't sit his "real" trot, let alone his extensions. And it was worth EVERY minute of embarrassment and disappointment and looking silly. I will forever be grateful for those rides because it both showed how much my own horse covered for me and gave me the feel of collection and movements that I'd never gotten "right" before. So if you only got one ride, yeah, I can see being disheartened. Do it again. And again. It'll get better.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A few years back there was an article in DT by a top rider who said that the big movers were really impossible to ride for most people, she (I honestly don't remember who was doing the article). I don't exactly remember how it was written but it was stated that she would prefer to see smaller horses that were more rideable being more acceptable at all levels.
                  "My treasures do not chink or gleam, they glitter in the sun and neigh at night."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry to have a different opinion but once you can sit on a big mover its amazing... I think its worth it to go for it, and I do admit, I cringe when I see a horse which could be a big mover hobbling along because the rider is not able to handle to big movement. Dressage is about developing the abilities of a horse and not about adjusting the horse to the riders needs...

                    I know you are going to kill me for that but I am over 50, not a professional and still love big moving horses....
                    https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
                    https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A longe lesson on a big moving horse helps me feel what I should be doing with core, seat, balance, etc. before I pick up the reins. Also, some are easier to sit on than others, in my limited experience. I think you should try it again sometime.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dressage takes time to learn, for both the horse and rider. A big schoolmaster horse has had years under saddle developing the muscles that power that collection. As we learn, we too take years developing the core strength and dexterity to handle the big movers. Sitting a big mover when your not ready gives you an idea of where you are with your training, and what you need to do to get there. I am like Manni01, over 50. So for me I am happy with a lower level horse and have passed on owning the big movers because it was not right fit for them, or me., I know myself and I do not have the time or the mental state to ever make that work.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by js View Post
                          A few years back there was an article in DT by a top rider who said that the big movers were really impossible to ride for most people, she (I honestly don't remember who was doing the article). I don't exactly remember how it was written but it was stated that she would prefer to see smaller horses that were more rideable being more acceptable at all levels.
                          I agree with this. To my eye, I would much prefer seeing an amateur on an appropriately-moving horse for the rider's skill/talent than see an amateur waterskiing on a big-moving horse, or bouncing around with hands all over the place. While the big-moving horse might look pretty just because of the nature of it being a nice mover, the bouncing amateur ruins the picture and makes it much less appealing to me.

                          I had an opportunity to ride an advanced eventer for a little while. Granted, he was a very big horse (true 17.3), but I found his large movements very uncomfortable and not to my liking. With my various hip and back problems, a big mover just isn't even something I would want to learn to ride. Ouch, ouch, ouch for my body!

                          Since I don't want to go to the Olympics or Welly-World or SoCal, I have the freedom to ride what I like without worrying if I'll make any sort of team or get my name out there or whatever.

                          But my goals are my own and different from other people's, so if what you (general) want to do necessitates a big mover, then you're going to have to learn how to ride it!
                          My Mustang Adventures - Mac, my mustang | Annwylid D'Lite - my Cob filly

                          "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just had my first experience on a huge moving semi-retired GP horse and I felt equally hunbl d. In fact at the first trot step I pulled up and asked "is it supposed to feel like this?" I managed to do a decent posting trot 20m circle after a few minutes but it was HARD work and though cool, not exactly fun. The canter was dreamy though! Not to say you can't and shouldn't learn to ride this type of horse, depending what your goals are. But be prepared for it to take a while and be patient - you wouldn't expect to do 100 push-ups successfully your first time at the gym. You'd start with one or two.

                            In the same lesson that I rode the giant mover, the trainer also put me on a little Luso stallion so i could feel the difference. Not as impressive feeling but WAY more comfortable and fun. I definitely appreciate the value of a horse like this while I'm still struggling with basics like core strength and independent seat and hands. Once those are mastered on an easier horse, then I think I'd enjoy working on the big mover more
                            *****************
                            I'm a Canadian dressage addict and I've got the blog to prove it!
                            www.dressageaddict.ca

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Manni01 View Post
                              Sorry to have a different opinion but once you can sit on a big mover its amazing... I think its worth it to go for it, and I do admit, I cringe when I see a horse which could be a big mover hobbling along because the rider is not able to handle to big movement. Dressage is about developing the abilities of a horse and not about adjusting the horse to the riders needs...

                              I know you are going to kill me for that but I am over 50, not a professional and still love big moving horses....
                              Yeah... Maybe you should learn how to read prior to posting...

                              And why the need of being so condescending with people? 'Cause really, your horses are not that much of big movers...

                              Can people ride the way they want? How they want? Who are you to judge them... I cringe when I hear such petty remarks.

                              Rant over. It's Easter.
                              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                              Originally posted by LauraKY
                              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                              HORSING mobile training app

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post

                                Yeah... Maybe you should learn how to read prior to posting...

                                And why the need of being so condescending with people? 'Cause really, your horses are not that much of big movers...

                                Can people ride the way they want? How they want? Who are you to judge them... I cringe when I hear such petty remarks.

                                Rant over. It's Easter.
                                You are always such a nice and friendly person
                                https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
                                https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Eh. You have to find what you can do. Some people have better backs than others. I find massage helps a lot. I think smaller people have a lot easier time sitting on any horse. The taller and bigger you are, the more difficult it becomes. Thus Steffen, as a smaller person, has a much easier time sitting all horses than Guenter, who's over six feet. And note Geunter and Robert Dover (also tall) have back problems.

                                  I think the PRE's and such are and will be more and more in fashion because their gaits are more rideable.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Big moving warmbloods also have a big floating buck. Totally unlike the TB buck which is tough to handle.
                                    Give me the WB trot and buck over the TB trot and buck any day. Much as I love TBs.
                                    But choose the discipline and the horse by whatever you are comfortable with and whatever you can handle.
                                    Everyday is a learning experience and every horse is different.
                                    Eventing is what I'd not do, but others love it. My eventing friends ask me if the WB trot is bouncy. yes it is.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post

                                      Yeah... Maybe you should learn how to read prior to posting...

                                      And why the need of being so condescending with people? 'Cause really, your horses are not that much of big movers...

                                      Can people ride the way they want? How they want? Who are you to judge them... I cringe when I hear such petty remarks.

                                      Rant over. It's Easter.
                                      What? Mann01 gets to ride what she wants to, just like anyone else. Disagreeing with an OP isn't being rude or even condescending. It's just holding a different opinion.

                                      Speaking as someone who has ridden hunters and jumpers forever, and who used to row in college, I agree with both points made:

                                      1. Holly crap, it's hard to learn a new way of sitting on a horse in the way that dressage requires!

                                      2. This is a sport. If you have ever put in the time to develop the fitness and technique for another one, you know hot long it takes. And you can appreciate that we want our horses to that.

                                      So why would any of us be surprised to learn that it took some plain old hard work to learn to sit on these athletic horses? And I think this is just a truth, not a statement with meanness in it.

                                      All that said, I purposely bought a smaller horse that I could sit as my first dressage horse. I think that it will be easier for me to master the technical part of sitting and not be quite so over-faced by the new fitness challenges if there's a smaller gap between my present athletic ability and the horse's natural way of going. When I ride better, I can buy a bigger-moving horse. That's how to structure a riding education that involves work toward mastery, not failure or a way of sitting on the horse that cheats somehow a bit.
                                      The armchair saddler
                                      Politically Pro-Cat

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TwoTrickPony View Post
                                        Eh. You have to find what you can do. Some people have better backs than others. I find massage helps a lot. I think smaller people have a lot easier time sitting on any horse.
                                        Haha. I was sure that we shorties have a harder time since we have less vertical height within which to resolve the horse's motion with a still ribcage up top.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X