• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What is Classical DressageTraining?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What is Classical DressageTraining?

    This may seem like a really stupid question, but it stumps me every time someone says "This horse is classically trained" or This is a very classical rider"

    All searches I have done on "classical dressage training" have turned out very vague results.

    So I guess my question is, what exactly IS the definition of classical dressage training and what would a classical dressage training program look like?
    Team Awesome fo sho!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Kcisawesome View Post
    This may seem like a really stupid question, but it stumps me every time someone says "This horse is classically trained" or This is a very classical rider"

    All searches I have done on "classical dressage training" have turned out very vague results.

    So I guess my question is, what exactly IS the definition of classical dressage training and what would a classical dressage training program look like?
    A "classically trained" rider/horse is one that practices the methods and styles taught at the older schools in Europe. Inherently different from the stuff you see on a day to day basis in the Olympics and at the local dressage shows. Classical dressage takes a VERY long time to learn since it is very specific which is why it's not what you see today.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

    Comment


    • #3
      As someone once posted on here, classical dressage is old, dead guys riding on fat white ponies.

      Comment


      • #4
        Great question, I've always wondered that also.

        All searches I have done on "classical dressage training" have turned out very vague results

        LexINVA - Nicely put. Laughing. I think that explanation was even more vague then what we get from the website searches. Please elaborate.
        http://kaboomeventing.com/
        http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
        Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
          Great question, I've always wondered that also.

          All searches I have done on "classical dressage training" have turned out very vague results

          LexINVA - Nicely put. Laughing. I think that explanation was even more vague then what we get from the website searches. Please elaborate.
          I wish I could. I've never really seen it myself and I think few people really have outside of Europe. I just kinda researched it one day it when I was dating a DQ and that's about all I found but I think you REALLY have to see it for yourself to understand it because it's not widely practiced at least not in the legitimate sense. From what little I know the difference is that competitive focuses more on the specific movements whereas classical is something of an ambiguous "Use The Force" type dressage. Even those who claim to practice it won't put it into words other than directly saying what competitive dressage does differently and not what the contrasting differences are between the two types of dressage. It's either supposed to be a mysterious secret much like Chinese martial arts were at one point or it's just something that people know of but don't actually know themselves. I suppose one could compare it to the concepts of God, magic, natural horsemanship, and "Buy one get one free" in that it can be defined but not really understood without a great deal of time, money, and effort.
          Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

          Comment


          • #6
            To me classical dressage means following the training scale and teaching the horse with it's well being coming first. No cutting corners to get quick results. I think you can still do competitive dressage with a classically trained horse, but the emphasis is not on getting quick results in the shortest time. But that may just be my own muddled opinion to fit myself!
            Hoppe, Hoppe, Reiter...
            Wenn er faellt dann schreit er...

            Originally posted by mbm
            forward is like love - you can never have enough

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Reiter View Post
              To me classical dressage means following the training scale and teaching the horse with it's well being coming first. No cutting corners to get quick results. I think you can still do competitive dressage with a classically trained horse, but the emphasis is not on getting quick results in the shortest time. But that may just be my own muddled opinion to fit myself!

              Well said!!!! It is everyday common sense riding and training.
              Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

              Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think it is also sometimes used as a code phrase for "this horse was not trained using Rolkur or excessive use of draw reins, or otherwise forced into a frame, or using an accelerated training program based only on the rider's competitive goals".
                ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

                Comment


                • #9
                  .

                  A lady helped me a couple of weeks ago that has trained classically in Europe. The focus was on the rear of the horse and where the horse was stepping behind. Allot of focus on the body and weight distribution. I must admit I was exhausted at the end of our session but I learned so much. I knew most of it from before but had never isolated certain problems and really focused on them before. I think it was a much more disciplined lesson. Does that make sense?
                  ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                  http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Reiter View Post
                    To me classical dressage means following the training scale and teaching the horse with it's well being coming first. No cutting corners to get quick results.

                    that sounds more like 'plain ol good training' to me.

                    So we have classical, and ?new age? dressage.
                    Which means that people who make the 'classical training' comment are referring to modern day dressage as shit.
                    I don't think that is very accurate.

                    this is why I have never understood the difference.
                    http://kaboomeventing.com/
                    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      From a novice: with past trainers, we did the movements for the tests. With my current, "classical thinking" trainer, the movements are the training in and of themselves. So we do lateral work not because we have leg yields in First Two. We do lateral work because it is what strengthens him, straightens him, balances him.Kind of "it's the journey, not the destination."

                      I would like to add that if you are classically trained you have never EVER done any Parelli.Nor will you be seduced by the dark side of that force.
                      www.specialhorses.org
                      a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LexInVA View Post
                        A "classically trained" rider/horse is one that practices the methods and styles taught at the older schools in Europe. Inherently different from the stuff you see on a day to day basis in the Olympics and at the local dressage shows. Classical dressage takes a VERY long time to learn since it is very specific which is why it's not what you see today.
                        Personally, I think this is the answer to the question. When I think of "classically trained", I think of a highly disciplined approach that is specific to a certain school of riding (having its own philosophy about horse/rider development) that has been honed for a very long time. For example, the spanish school, the portuguese school, the old-time German masters' school, etc. Discipline, adherance to specific standards, and a long-term approach to training horse and rider are the hallmarks of classical training, IMO. Of course, it's worth noting that many schools rode horses bred specifically for that type of training, which can make broad application of "classical training" a bit tricky.

                        But I think alot of people refer to adherance to the Training Scale when they say "classically trained".

                        So I guess it's always worth asking "what do you mean by 'classically trained'"?

                        J.

                        PS. Geek, you are tooooooo funny!
                        Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am working very hard at not working on my book chapter.
                          www.specialhorses.org
                          a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            what? what is done differently?
                            that still has not been answered.

                            the movements are the training in and of themselves. So we do lateral work not because we have leg yields in First Two. We do lateral work because it is what strengthens him,

                            this again is another statement that is true to modern day dressage...no any different from classical.
                            http://kaboomeventing.com/
                            http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                            Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Anselcat View Post
                              I think it is also sometimes used as a code phrase for "this horse was not trained using Rolkur or excessive use of draw reins, or otherwise forced into a frame, or using an accelerated training program based only on the rider's competitive goals".


                              Exactly.
                              http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                                what? what is done differently?
                                that still has not been answered.

                                the movements are the training in and of themselves. So we do lateral work not because we have leg yields in First Two. We do lateral work because it is what strengthens him,

                                this again is another statement that is true to modern day dressage...no any different from classical.
                                Not where I come from. There are trainers who have you do leg yields because that's what's next in the tests, not because they do something for the horse.
                                www.specialhorses.org
                                a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Agree with what Reiter said. A recent issue of "St. Georg" (the FN magazine in Germany) just had a major article on the subject. (quite interesting to see this debate in my native Germany going on with such verocity. Their publications lack the pc-ness of the US, say Dressage Today, etc. They'll publish pics of Anky warming up in Rollkur and her horse doing changes croup high etc. at the European championships and Isabell nice "tactful" -- long and low). I heard the the Bartels in the Netherlands published a book on the "new dutch training methods" -- which I *assume* would be non-classical.
                                  A good look at bringing classical and competition under one roof would be in the new Klaus Balkenhol book:

                                  http://www.amazon.com/Klaus-Balkenho.../dp/157076378X

                                  To me classical also means putting the wellbeing of the horse first, in all aspects.
                                  "Reite dein Pferd vorwärts und richte es gerade.” Gustav Steinbrecht

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Classical = the exercises are a means to an end.
                                    Competitive = the exercises are the end product.
                                    ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post
                                      Not where I come from. There are trainers who have you do leg yields because that's what's next in the tests, not because they do something for the horse.
                                      how does that make any difference to the horse or the riding though? does the horse not gain strength or responsiveness from leg yields if you are riding it because that's what's next in the tests?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Classical - you are using the leg yield to enhance your horse's athletic ability, help him carry you more effectively and ultimately improve your interaction with him.

                                        Competitive - you are performing a leg yield for a score.

                                        Your goals WILL affect the way you approach the task.
                                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X