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Trainers showing Training Level???

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  • Trainers showing Training Level???

    Ok, I would love to get your guy's opinions on why trainers would show training level....

    I have seen this at numerous shows and don't understand it.
    One example: trainer (who shows fourth level) gets on a student's horse and rides the horse in the Training level open class. Student rides same horse in the Training level novice rider class.
    What is the point?? Student obviously can walk, trot, canter so why have the trainer ride the horse at all?

    In the end, trainer gets Champion for year end awards in the Training level class and other riders get bumped because they actually ride Training level.

    Is this common practice???
    Love your horse like it's the last time you'll see him

  • #2
    I'm by no means an expert, but if there is an Open Training class, pros can enter it. "Open" means open to anyone, pros or ammy's. It could be the same thing if the class is "Maiden Horse". There isn't a restriction on who rides the horse, but on the level of the horse. I'm sure others who are more familiar with dressage class listings will give you a better answer.

    It's not an uncommon occurance for a trainer to "tune up" a horse for an ammy rider. It happens in a lot of disciplines. Is it fair? Yes and no. It's just the way it is.

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe they are on a green bean, and want to give the horse the benefit of a confident ride.

      Comment


      • #4
        gren horse?

        Perhaps the horse needs more ring/show mileage; ie; he may wwin when he actually enters the arena/does not spook at the judge, but , it'seither win or the big 'E'gren horse?. I admit to having had several horses like that.One who would consscontently "blow " the first class , but, then win the 2nd.
        breeder of Mercury!

        remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

        Comment


        • #5
          If it is a green horse then what do you want the trainer to enter?. Grand Prix?. A green horse has to start somewhere but if it is a 4th level horse then ofcourse it shouldn't be allowed
          Every time you ride, your are either teaching or un-teaching your horse.

          Comment


          • #6
            Where would you suggest a trainer start showing a young or green horse? By the way, you should rethink your definition of trainer. All riders should learn or strive to be trainers of their horses (with oversite). Maybe what you meant was "professional".

            A three, four or five year old belongs at training level in most cases. Or a horse that has no show mileage what so ever belongs at training level.

            Try to change your view to realize that the training scale of the levels is for the horse in most cases, not the rider. If we are following that training scale we start at Training level and move the horse up as it progresses and is ready for each new challenge.

            As the rider progresses, he/she too should move up the levels, training level should not be an end unto itself.

            I am an amateur but I raise and get my youngsters to their first shows. I have shown many horses through the years at training and first level. I bring out a young horse each year at this level. This is where they get their show mileage and learn to get use to all of the noises, sites and sounds of the show environment. They do not yet have lengthenings or the balance to do any more typically. In some cases they are green broke and barely understand left, right whoa, go.

            Comment


            • #7
              I will ride a client's horse in the first test of the day if they are nervous, or just not comfortable, or if the horse is really green, or really hot.

              I think it is part of a trainer's job to make sure they are always there to help support their clients, and be willing to get on first in the case of a tougher horse. Some amateurs get very nervous/overwhelmed if their horse acts up, or whatever. It is supposed to be fun, so why make a big deal if they aren't comfortable? Horses know when their rider is insecure, so they could even be worse if their rider is too nervous.

              And anyways, most trainers I know don't really care about placings, they just want a clean test, and an honest horse in the ring.

              Unless, of course, they are trying to qualify for regional awards etc.
              Nothing worth having comes easily.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                The horse was not green and the horse was ridden by the student on the same day. The student has about 8 years of total riding under her belt and was showing in the novice rider class. Then the trainer took her into the open class.
                I know some trainers who show green horses and ask not to be "placed" but just given a score so they know how well the horse did.

                Again, this particular horse was not green. If it was I would understand the student not riding the horse BUT this student showed the horse all day.
                Love your horse like it's the last time you'll see him

                Comment


                • #9
                  Really, I don't care. You never know what someone else's motivation is--maybe the rider was scared, maybe the horse pulled a wicked stunt last time it was in the ring or had an unsettling experience.

                  She showed the horse open, so no problem.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There is a limit to how many times a horse can be shown in one day. Also, a horse can only ride each test only once. (Trainer and student can't ride the same test)

                    As long as these rules were not broken, what's the problem?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [quote=StrawberryFrosted;2826354]In the end, trainer gets Champion for year end awards in the Training level class and other riders get bumped because they actually ride Training level.
                      quote]

                      Perhaps your year end awards should be revised to separate AA, O, and Jr/Yr categories. It seems that would solve your concern. Either that or your show managers could provide separate classes for AA, O, and Jr/Yr, which isn't feasible at most schooling shows.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                        Perhaps your year end awards should be revised to separate AA, O, and Jr/Yr categories.
                        Or you could take pride in how well you and your horse did at that show or over the season, and reflect on what you learned from the experience, and realize it doesn't matter how anyone else did. One of the things I love about our sport is that we get a score and a sheet of comments at the end of our ride, so we know why we placed first with a 58% or dead last with a 72%, and can be satisfied, or not, or whatever.

                        Training Level isn't a level for rookie riders. It's a level for horse and rider combinations who aren't ready for First Level, simple as that. Whether that's because the rider is green, or because the horse is green, or because one or both are terrified, it's irrelevant.
                        spriesersporthorse.com | farm on Facebook | me on Facebook | blog

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Our GMO divides year-end awards into "Not Shown Above 2nd Level" and "Shown Above 2nd Level" to separate the more experienced riders/trainers from those genuinely at the lower levels.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You say the horse is not green. What level is the horse trained to?? I think everyone has said it pretty well. Who cares if shes been riding for 8 years. Maybe this was said trainers idea because she thinks the horse needs a little more confidence and not the rider. There are a ton of reasons and possiblities this could be. Maybe the trainer likes the horse and the horse does well for her so its a little tune up before the student enters the ring. By the way you never said where the student ended up at the end of the year awards.
                            Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am a rider guilty of having my trainer show my horse at training level. This was several years ago, and my horse had a way of retaliating if you asked for the canter incorrectly. He would either flip his head 5 inches from your nose, or bolt. Needless to say I became nervous, so if I could talk my trainer into showing him in the first class of the morning. That was great for the first year I had him. That class was usually training 1 or 2 that first year and my trainer at the time had ridden PSG.

                              While I had shown training on my old horse, and this horse was not green, we were not capable of showing training all the time, because he was a much more sensitive ride than I was used to and we took a lot of steps backwards before we progressed together.

                              P.S. we then showed 1st level for 4 years before moving on to 2nd, because once again we weren't ready to move up confidently. There are no time limits for any level.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                The reason could also have been that the professional was
                                giving the owner a 'goal'. i.e., If I can show your horse to
                                a %65 in a certain class and he is not a loon with me, then
                                you know it is possible. The student can try to improve
                                upon the trainer's score.
                                (Sometimes that works the other way around - the owner
                                gets the higher score. We just say it is because the horse
                                loooves his owner - knd of a 'my friend flicka' thing)

                                Dot
                                www.settlementfarm.us

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Who paid for the class? Often owners want the trainers to compete the horse not only for the horse's experience, but for year end awards that they know they can't get on the horse.

                                  It's perfectly fine and legal. The class is designated as "open", which means it's for all people of all skill levels to compete on an equal level. Personally, I still don't see why amateurs have to have their own classes. Why not have everyone ride against each other? Riding is riding and you need to learn to be competent at each level against all people before moving on. (At least that's my opinion. *shrug*)
                                  "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    unbelievable whining.

                                    If you want to win against a better rider, learn to ride better.
                                    The test is about the skill of the team. A pro on a green, scared or otherwise low level horse is just as valid as an ammy riding a schoolmaster, which is just as valid as one of us riding our self trained grade horse at that level.

                                    However, many clubs make their pros inelegible for most of their year end awards and that evens things out a bit.
                                    "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by StrawberryFrosted View Post
                                      Ok, I would love to get your guy's opinions on why trainers would show training level....

                                      I have seen this at numerous shows and don't understand it.
                                      One example: trainer (who shows fourth level) gets on a student's horse and rides the horse in the Training level open class. Student rides same horse in the Training level novice rider class.
                                      What is the point?? Student obviously can walk, trot, canter so why have the trainer ride the horse at all?

                                      In the end, trainer gets Champion for year end awards in the Training level class and other riders get bumped because they actually ride Training level.

                                      Is this common practice???
                                      What a load of sour grapes.

                                      If the HORSE is a Training level horse, of COURSE it is appropriate for the trainer to ride it a Training level. There wouldn't be much point in the trainer taking it a First level when it is still Training level horse, would there?

                                      In case you hadn't noticed, there is a LOT more to a good Training level test than just "can walk, trot, canter ".
                                      Janet

                                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by StrawberryFrosted View Post
                                        The horse was not green and the horse was ridden by the student on the same day. The student has about 8 years of total riding under her belt and was showing in the novice rider class. Then the trainer took her into the open class.
                                        I know some trainers who show green horses and ask not to be "placed" but just given a score so they know how well the horse did.

                                        Again, this particular horse was not green. If it was I would understand the student not riding the horse BUT this student showed the horse all day.
                                        I have about 25+ years of riding and spent the entire year showing at training level. It may not have anything to do with the rider.

                                        And as for the year end awards, most clubs split open/aa/jr so that shouldn't even be a concern.
                                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                        "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"

                                        Comment

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