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Spin-off: Any US organization consistently producing high level RIDERS?

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  • Spin-off: Any US organization consistently producing high level RIDERS?

    Is there a place in the US (or North America) that consistently produces high level riders like the FN or Cadre Noir? Something were you apprentice for a period of time (2-3 years perhaps?) and work to pay for your education?

    I would LOVE to find a place who would put me on the lunge for 6 months on a decent horse so I can learn my seat. Then teach me the upper level movements, THEN put me on the green bean to teach them. There is so much emphasis put on the training scale for the horse, why not the rider??? I am SO frustrated by the lack of proper education of riders and, by default, the coaches. Not only is there not the apprenticeship opportunity, but the opportunity at all in this country.

    Thoughts?
    When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

  • #2
    There are individual instructors who would happily put you through such a program, but most of us wouldn't dare to keep a student on the longe for 6mo.
    Even 6 weeks would give most a fit.

    But there is no established school in the US that I know of that strictly follows the pattern of the Cadre Noir or the SRS.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, he's more an Institution than an organization, but Mike Poulin has, I believe, produced more Olympic Team and Long List riders than pretty much any other trainer in the US... If competition is your aim, I don't think you can do much better. I hear he's mellowed a bit, but if you can make it through as his WS, you are the cream of the crop.

      Don't know a thing about "Academy" type programs.
      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
        There are individual instructors who would happily put you through such a program, but most of us wouldn't dare to keep a student on the longe for 6mo.
        Even 6 weeks would give most a fit.

        But there is no established school in the US that I know of that strictly follows the pattern of the Cadre Noir or the SRS.
        And herein lies the problem!! I am a rider who would KILL to have the opportunity to ride a decent horse on the lunge for 6 months! I CAN ride off the lunge, I've ridden up through 2nd level and ridden high level schoolmasters...BUT I feel like the emphasis is only on the horse, and I'm not given the chance to forget the horse (steering, pace, etc) and focus on balance and cadence and controlling MY body.

        I have not found a working student position where I could spend the first 6 months on the lunge, and I've looked!

        And I'm willing to work hard (my resume proves that), but I am not willing to be treated poorly, without respect, or be the punching bag if things don't go well. I am drama free, efficient, and can take criticism...but not be constantly yelled at for any minor infraction. That is a big concern of mine, that I won't be able to stick out the "personality" part of it. You won't find a harder worker than me, but I can be sensitive. And I think it makes me a better rider/trainer/coach myself. I'm not sure why it is ok (even treated as a right of passage) to be treated poorly in a learning experience. Not one person would put up with a college professor treating their kid the way I've seen some WS be treated.
        When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

        Comment


        • #5
          you have a PM.
          InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
            you have a PM.
            Clean your Inbox! I sent you a reply, but your box is full. Thank you for the tip, I've followed up with it!
            When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

            Comment


            • #7
              I wouldn't consider my place an 'institution' but I have had a few students who happily rode on the lunge strictly, 2x's a week (that's how many lessons per week they were taking) for up to 1 full year. Sometimes, alternating on the lunge/off every other ride.

              I don't understand the 'have a fit' comment...if a trainer were to make a student ride on the lunge for that long. That only tells the trainer the student isn't really serious about learning to ride properly and probably wouldn't be sticking around for the long term anyways.

              Don't get me wrong. Many students I have had only rode on the lunge for 4-6-8 weeks, then done. Then regular rides, then back to the lunge from time to time to re-tune the seat.

              It's really not a big deal. I don't understand why more instructors don't do it more often. The only explanation I can come up with is that they can only teach what they know through experience. And if they can't ride it themselves, and relate to it through their own feel, then they will not be able to teach it and thus don't DARE go there in their teachings!

              BTW, I regularly have clinics at my place with SRS bereiters, and also bring in a European FEI level judge for lessons in which I ride several horses in each event. So feel and ability directly relates to what is taught.
              Horses don't lie.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just got the msg it was full.

                you can email me too... pintopiaffe at aol dot com

                I'm better about that than PMs since I don't log in at work--can't have cookies.
                InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                Comment


                • #9
                  On the longe strictly, and sometimes off and on, doesn't constitute the same thing. And being on the longe alone will not teach a student to use that body that has learned to follow so nicely.

                  The OP's main interest is a location or a school that consistantly produces students capable of riding the higher levels.

                  In this country her best bet would be to find a W/S position with an U/L trainer who not only has the ability to ride and teach from the basics to the advanced, but has a horse or two capable of being a school master. Just having U/L, or in-hand horses without the other two elements won't work. Nor can all U/L riders teach, some are better trainers than teachers.

                  Positions like this need to be earned, and don't appear all that often.

                  Good luck fizzyfuzzybuzzy.
                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                    In this country her best bet would be to find a W/S position with an U/L trainer who not only has the ability to ride and teach from the basics to the advanced, but has a horse or two capable of being a school master. Just having U/L, or in-hand horses without the other two elements won't work. Nor can all U/L riders teach, some are better trainers than teachers.

                    Positions like this need to be earned, and don't appear all that often.

                    Good luck fizzyfuzzybuzzy.
                    This is my problem...who is producing high level riders/trainers? I've ridden with U/L riders...some weren't as U/L as I (or they) thought, some could ride but couldn't teach, some could teach...at the top of their lungs. Some coaches I loved but they didn't have a WS position available.

                    If you want to be a Dr or lawyer in the states, it's simple, you go to medical or law school. And within that system you can become a great dr/lawyer or mediocre, but still have the skills to call yourself as such. But there is no such system (or even an apprentice system like farriers) for trainer/coaches. VERY frustrating!
                    When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are you seriously willing to be on the lunge line for 20 mins a day, 6 days/week in exchange for working your @$$ off cleaning stalls, taking up horses etc? That's a big commitment.

                      I worked my butt off for 6 years as a WS for a couple different people, and it was a great experience, but I don't honestly know that if, given the choice, I'd do it again. I'm in a great place now, but it's only a matter of chance that I ended up here. Then again, maybe I'm here because I'm meant to be. My life has led a crazy path up to this point, and it seems like everything has had a point to it.

                      If you're absolutely serious about what you're looking for, PM me, I can put you in contact with some people that might be able to help you.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I am willing to work for it, I've been a working student so I know what it entails. But I am also an adult (old for a WS at 28 ) and need certain things from a WS position. I am not willing to do what I did before, and just take any position with a BNT. It needs to be a win win. Like I said in a previous post, I am a hard worker, and very experienced in grooming, barn management, as well as being a vet tech, so it would not be unskilled labor in exchange for lessons/accommodation. But for the right situation, I'm more than happy to commit my time, effort and passion to it!
                        When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

                        Comment

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