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Canadians...UNCART??? WTF????

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  • Canadians...UNCART??? WTF????

    If you ride dressage in Canada, you NEED to go and have a look at the EC website for the new rule changes. Inside, is the "information" about UNCART which is about to be unveiled.

    You only have until October 1st to send in your comments and/or questions...(Such as..."How the HECK are we going to implement this?" and "Did you really MEAN to turn all the grass roots riders away, or was that a by-product of trying to drum up more cash for the few Int'l riders that Canada has?" and what about..."Good idea! We didn't want to make it easy for any of those people who thought they might like to "try" dressage, anyway! Who needs the rif raf!" and "Where does CADORA fit into this?" Plus..""How come Bronze Level riders are going to require EVERY membership, but aren't allowed to participate in a year end championship?" )...or, you may even think of some of your own! Just read through the information, such as it is, and let your imagination wander.

    Seems to be what thepeople who WROTE this thing did, too!

    So, Canadian dressage riders...get to it and find out what you are about to be saddled with. It aint pretty!


    PS....Do you think the USDF would take us??? It sure looks like an option so far!

  • #2
    can you give a link? I went to EC (Im assuming Equine Canada???) but couldn't find anything more than a general rah-rah explanation of UNCART.

    one oak, lots of canyons



    • #3
      Originally posted by canyonoak View Post
      can you give a link? I went to EC (Im assuming Equine Canada???) but couldn't find anything more than a general rah-rah explanation of UNCART.


      It is in pdf format and PAGES long. Maybe someone can give us the point by point version?


      • #4
        I haven't shown at all this year and my last couple of years were only at Primaries. WTF is UNCART?
        Founder of the Olde Farte Clique


        • Original Poster

          THere is a thread about it on EMG in the dressage section...


          I am on the Executive of our local dressage club and WE don't have any more info than what was posted on the EC site. Even our CADORA rep had no notice that this was being implemented in this years' rules. It's been snuck in under the radar, IMO, and people are given less than a month to give their opinions before it becomes the official rules.

          IMO, changing the entire structure of the circuit calls for a General Meeting, where questions can be asked by the people who are actually going to PAY for these changes....You and I.

          The last question was about showing in Primary. My understanding is that there will be no "Primary", I wil be considered "Bronze", and it will cost you (I'm guessing at the numbers as EC hasn't quite gotten around to telling us how much this is going to COST!), likely another $100-$300.00 a year in MEMBERSHIPS. You will need a passport-type thing (Currently in some sort of developement I am assuming...Heck..we've got 3 months to register EVERY HORSE IN CANADA WHO WANTS TO SHOW DRESSAGE! What's the rush???) Also, EC licenses, competitor's stickers, DC license and your membership to your local club. If I have that wrong, someone please correct me. It's a little muddy in my mind after trying to figure the whole thng out... WAY to get people to come out and try dressage! Make it so ridiculously expensive and time consuming that NO ONE will say..."Hey, I've always wanted to try that...Let's take Pal down there and have a go!"

          And, for that you get NO CHAMPIONSHIPS. Want Championships? Go "Silver" and "surprise!!!", pay more money and hope like Heck your dressage club can find the upper level judges and stewards who are needed to judge those "required" FEI classes...whether anyone shows up fpr them or not...

          Yup..those FEI riders in Backofbeyond Ontario are just going to over run the shows! There are so many we will be required to offer ALL FEI classes at every show!

          OK, you've paid your money, you're going to the Championships....Better hope you either get lucky on the location, or the cost of gas goes down, because each Province is allowed to have ONE Championship show. So, if you live in Toronto and the show is in Ottawa, look forward to an 8-10 hour trailer ride to get there, or vice versa.

          Did anyone inform these folks just how BIG some provinces are? That it can take most of a day in a car to drive across one?

          The Driving folks have already gone to the USDF, if my memory serves....It may be time the Dressage folks followed suit.



          • #6
            It's sort of like watching the beginning of a slow death of the sport in Canada.

            I'm proud to be a Canadian. I show and live in the US though. I'm sorry to say that this year I did not renew my EC, OEF or DC memberships... I thought, what's the point? It's not like any of these clubs have done a whole lot for me lately.

            EC needs to follow suit with the US GMOs, where for a $45 membership per year (in our GMO anyway!) you're free to compete in as many shows as you like and vie for year end awards within your club.
            True North Dressage
            Select Cheval Canadiens for dressage and eventing


            • #7
              But UNCART isn't just going to effect dressage, it will effect every equestrian sport.

              EC is doing away with passports, in it's place will be "Horse Identification Document". This will be required at all levels of showing, yup, you read that right.

              There will be 3 Levels of showing: Bronze, Silver and Gold.

              Bronze will be your 1 Day Schooling show level. You will have to have a [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]
              r, B, M level judge, you will have to have the following memberships: Provincial, EC Bronze Level and Dressage Canada minimum of Junior or Associate. Your horse will need it's Horse Identification Document and Horse Licence from EC. Permitted classes up to Fourth Level. But you don't qualify for any awards from DC or EC or even at the Provinicial level.

              Silver Level Shows will be max. of 2 days.ClassesUp to Fourth Level plus FEI Children, FEI Pony, FEI Junior, FEI Young Rider, FEI Prix St Georges, FEI Intermediare 1 and FEI Intermediare 2 plus relevant Freestyles. Judges to be: r, B, M, S. Silver Level EC membership as well as DC minimum of Junior or Associate and PSO. Horse Identification Document and Horse Licence Required. You will qualify for Provincial Awards, DC Silver Awards and the Lauren Dilanni Award from Freestyles.

              Gold Level Shows have no limit on the number of days. All tests can be offered. Judges can be B, M, S, or FEI. Memberships required: Gold EC Membership, DC Minimum of Junior or Senior, and PSO. Horse Identification Document and Horse licence required. You will qualify for Provincial Awards, DC National Awards, Lauren Dilanni Award from Freestyles, and the Dressage Canada 8 Awards.

              personally, I don't see this as being beneficial to Dressage in Canada or any other equestrian sport in Canada. EC wants to get more money into their coffers and this is how they plan on doing it.[FONT=Arial][/FONT][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]


              • #8
                OK so they decide to kill Primary.


                • #9
                  Wait a *&^@# minute, this means that for the three day, combined National / PaRC (Regional) competition, where I really don't care about year end awards, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GET A GOLD membership?!?!?! I've been showing PaRC because I didn't see the need for an EC membership for a couple of smallish shows at Training/First...

                  And what about Horse Trials??? This means that everyone who wants to run a Starter level horse trial, that happens to run over three days instead of two (not uncommon around here), has to get their "Gold" membership?? Wow. That's going to turn a LOT of people away.

                  For both of these scenarios you only needed your Provincial membership to participate - a whole $45/annually...

                  ETA: Someone on the EMG thread suggested that it would be possible to just get USEF/USDF memberships and use those instead. Is that correct if you're a Canadian resident??
                  "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."


                  • #10
                    dressagecanada.org has 91 pages of proposed rule changes for 2008...but you can get through alot of this as not all pages are really interesting reading eg: table of contents etc.


                    • #11
                      What does UNCART stand for--in letters, not concepts, hahahahahahah
                      one oak, lots of canyons



                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sabovee View Post
                        EC needs to follow suit with the US GMOs, where for a $45 membership per year (in our GMO anyway!) you're free to compete in as many shows as you like and vie for year end awards within your club.

                        It doesn't 'really' work that way in the US. You can only show at 'schooling shows' for no additional fees. If you show at 'recognized shows' and you are not a member of the NGB then you have to pay an additional fee every time you show.

                        IMHO ... there is a vast difference in quality between 'schooling shows' and 'recognized shows'.

                        ***Although.......some of the places who offer 'recognized shows' are not doing a 'schooling show series'. In which the quality of the ground is usually excellent and the facilities are wonderful.***

                        Recognized dressage in the US is expensive!


                        • #13
                          I still don't get the entire concept

                          Does this really mean- that for local schooling shows, we will need a Bronze membership plus an EC "Horse Identification" (aka the old "Passport")??? Or only for recognized EC schooling shows (the old "primary")??

                          And we'll need the Silver membership plus the Horse ID for provincial C level shows? Like for example Trillium or (here in Calgary) AHHS???

                          As a Coach, I"m not even sure which membership I apply for- or what it entitles me to!! Can anyone clarify that? Did I miss that somewhere??

                          Totally confused, here!!!!


                          • #14
                            First off- UNCART has been in the works for a couple of years- it was SUPOSED to be in place in 2007 (and didn't happen). We (dressage groups) are still waiting on some answers as how this will affect us. . . primary thing i see is that we won't be able to really run primary (provincial) and EC shows at the same time/same judge as we do around here...

                            There are plusses and minus's to the system from what i've been informed about- i'm still confused as hell-
                            Qualified Saddle Fitter with the S.M.S.


                            • #15
                              Does this apply to jumper as well?

                              I can see a lot of "bootleg" shows popping up run by the local barns with "invitees only".


                              • #16
                                Yes it applies across the board all disciplins- the idea being you 'pay for what you play" in the jumper/hunter world (in my understanding) the high end shows (ie what is now recognized/"a" shows would have the higher fees (so what 2'9? 3" level) where those showing 2'3 would be only at permit/provincial shows (trillium??) as i understand it.... so can be some savings there for people.

                                But for dressage recognized starts at the lowest levels (training)... so price if you show recognized at training would not be different (possibly MORE) then we're paying now.... but i haven't had confirmation on that
                                Qualified Saddle Fitter with the S.M.S.


                                • #17
                                  What is stopping somebody from starting another organization with their own rules/National Championships/points system? If they make it attractive enough and everybody defects what will EC do? If you went and rounded up some sponsorship and actually paid a purse to winners/placers I'll bet you could end up with something pretty good!
                                  ... _. ._ .._. .._


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                    What is stopping somebody from starting another organization with their own rules/National Championships/points system? If they make it attractive enough and everybody defects what will EC do? If you went and rounded up some sponsorship and actually paid a purse to winners/placers I'll bet you could end up with something pretty good!
                                    The power of any organization is in its ability to provide certain "services". In this case the EC or any national equestrian organization is recognized by the world body that decides at least on an international basis who qualifies for events at the FEI/international level. Any organization that puts forward their "champions" will find a cold reception.

                                    It is also from the sub levels where selections to promote are found( via grants along with various other "services" that only an organization recognized internationally can offer).

                                    I like the jumpers and they are already at the high end of expense output already with the nomination fees,memberships and class cost entries, now it will only be for the wealthy.

                                    I wonder how the various fall/spring fairs will get around this?


                                    • #19
                                      Here is the link from the DC website...


                                      yes it is 91 pages long. Took forever to load.
                                      I browsed thru it last night and have printed off the pages I need to study.
                                      I'll take them to work tomorrow.
                                      One thing I noticed was that, oh yes...Bronze riders can wear short boot and half chaps.
                                      However, if you ride in half chaps you must have safety stirrups....not just for the juniors, but adults too.
                                      And ponies can only have a 90cm whip...

                                      I do encourage everyone to slog thru it all and please send in your comments.


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Mallard View Post
                                        Here is the link from the DC website...

                                        One thing I noticed was that, oh yes...Bronze riders can wear short boot and half chaps.
                                        However, if you ride in half chaps you must have safety stirrups.....

                                        Wholly...fffffff......... frack. Missed that. Who the Fruitbatting Hockeysticks has come up with this nonsense?!?!
                                        Bootleg shows indeed!!!!! I"m all for THAT!!!!!

                                        PS just to clarify, I know we're in the dressage forum, but in h/j the levels have nothing to do with jump heights. It's to do with the number/type of classes (sometimes higher jumps, obviously), # of days and prize money. UNLESS all that is changing now too??
                                        Last edited by OnyxThePony; Sep. 13, 2007, 12:41 AM. Reason: there are two t's in fruitbatting, I do believe