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23 month KWPN filly-dressage prospect? (be nice please :P)

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  • 23 month KWPN filly-dressage prospect? (be nice please :P)

    Got some nice pictures of my 23 month old KWPN filly today. I plan to use her for dressage (not sure what level...i'm a dressage enthusiast on a shoestring budget so FEI is most likely not in our sights). What do you think of her confo for dressage? Be nice ... I love this filly like a child


  • #2
    I'm sure you're going to be quite happy with her - she has some very nice lines to her, great shoulder, good neck and head is set on nicely. The pictures aren't the best as far as being able to judge conformation is concerned, and the only thing that worries me a little is the length and angle of her pasterns, specifically the front. She's going to be quite comfortable, but you're also going to have to be a little careful about not overstressing those already somewhat weak pasterns.

    Enjoy her!
    Siegi Belz
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


    • #3
      She is a lovely horse with a nice sloping shoulder and good neck connection. A nice length of neck for such a young horse as well. She should be suited for dressage, although her long, angled front pasterns are not ideal structurally for longterm soundness. But with good, slow training and management, I'm sure you'll have many years of dressage with this beautiful filly.

      ETA: Siegi and I posted at the same time--looks like we also had the same assessment!
      2007 Welsh Cob C X TB GG Eragon
      Our training journal.
      1989-2008 French TB Shamus Fancy
      I owned him for fifteen years, but he was his own horse.


      • #4
        I had same thoughts as siegi.

        I don't think you should worry too much about the pasterns but just something to watch.

        Lovely horse. My young horse looked more like a llama at that age and he got through it fine.


        • Original Poster

          I know her front pasterns are really her only real worry for me...and I have literally stayed up late at night printing protractors and measuring those angles (that's normal right?? haha). Her front angles are 45 degrees and back angles are 50 degrees when she's standing square...which isn't horrible but it's not ideal either. I plan to take her to breed shows this year also and I hope those pasterns won't keep her from placing!


          • #6
            I hope those pasterns won't keep her from placing!
            interesting way to think about it. That would be the last of my worrries.


            • Original Poster

              Well obviously they are of a concern in the future as well for soundness...but I don't think they are severely sloped enough to pose her much of an issue based on my calculations and research. I am also thinking that she is not even 2 yet. As she fills out further and her legs gain circumference they may become stronger and less of an issue. And egontoast didn't you say you wouldn't worry about them too much?


              • #8
                Length and slope of pasterns are really key things for me. They are the base of the horse.


                • #9
                  I think she's lovely, but I do agree that the pasterns should be considered. I wouldn't break her for at least another year, and probably throw her back out for another year after about 60 days under saddle.

                  I had a lovely SWB/TB with pasterns similar to hers. He wasn't sturdy.
                  In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                  A life lived by example, done too soon.


                  • Original Poster

                    I realize that she has long pasterns. What am I supposed to do about it? As I said I have no means or desire to make her my FEI horse...and honestly I am quite happy with her. I would like to add I have seen QUITE a few dressage stallions out there breeding mares with pasterns the same as hers and a few slightly worse. While it CAN indicate potential unsoundness issues...it also gives a lofty, springy, expressive trot (which my filly has). As I've already said quite explicitly...I really love this horse and i can't send her back to her mom to ask for better pasterns. NO horse is perfect...and I happen to think she is quite beautiful!


                    • #11
                      If you'd said "how is she for a jumper prospect", then I'd worry about the longish pasterns. Dressage? Lower levels? Decent footing? Stop worrying. She's lovely. Great neck connection, nice square package. A touch long in the back, but nothing serious there. As you said, not shooting for the FEI. More importantly, how is her temperament? Good mind? Amateur friendly? Then you've got a winner!

                      (I love chestnut mares, too)
                      Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


                      • #12
                        luvmydutch - the fact that your filly is only 23 months old may also mean that she can still grow into those pastern. I wouldn't worry about it for the time being - she is a very nice horse and you're going to have a lot of fun with her.

                        What's her breeding?
                        Siegi Belz
                        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


                        • #13
                          I sold a filly many years ago that had wwwwaaaaaayyyyyyyy worse pasterns and she was one of the top scoring Hanoverian fillies for several years-don't worry about it for breed shows, they are really more interested in movement. When I sold her, the PPE vet even told the new owners that her paterns were his only concern/issue with her and to go slllllllooooooowly with her training or she could have a suspensory injury-sure enough, they didn't listen and she was out for stall rest for months. Your filly looks much better, but I would make sure your footing is good and you don't go too fast in her training.

                          Just curious why you clipped her if she isn't quite yet 2? I have to say because of that, she makes my 2 years olds look like yaks but it made me wonder what you are doing with her if clipping was necessary. Most of us (breeders) will tell you to do nothing with them until 2 1/2 and even then, put tack on them and begin to sit on them, maybe some walk, trot but not much else till they are 3. Again, just curious.


                          • #14
                            She is cute...really pretty build...just as everyone said..watch those front legs. She looks lighter boned for a DW too...must have some TB? I like her though...just give her plenty of growing time and you are going to love her. What a nice color too. What is her actual breeding? I love my DW...she is by Juventus...but a totally different style than yours...mine looks like a smaller version of Juventus...really typey. How is your girls movement? Since you aren't jumping her, I would worry about the front end too much...just keep an eye on it.
                            I raised my Hanoverian/Trak mare from a foal, and around three years old for no reason she started to toe in...the stress it caused me was immense. I worried so much about that it wasn't even funny. (I event so it WAS a bit more of a worry.) She is now nine years old, slightly toed in still...but the BEST event horse AND Dressage horse I have even owned! I have her fetlocks X-rayed every so often just to check on her, and keep her on Cosequin and the occasional Adequan injection (only on the vein...not the joints) mostly for my own piece of mind. I wouldn't trade her for a perfectly straight legged one...she is the BEST!!!!
                            They all have SOMETHING that isn't perfect...I always say...I myself would never pass a vet check that we expect these horses to pass...


                            • #15
                              Oh PS...an afterthought...her weight looks great...watch for OCD and allowing her to become too fat....a lot of people make that mistake. Front pasterns good or bad won't matter too much if she gets OCD that can't be righted. You are doing a great job!!


                              • #16
                                I'm curious about the body clip too.


                                • Original Poster

                                  Thanks for the encouraging words guys...I couldn't fall asleep last night thinking about those pasterns!! Anyway, re-evaluating her once again...they're really not THAT bad and her movement is spectacular. Her breeding: She is out of an imported KWPN ster sport show jumping mare (ironic eh? hehe) and by the Oldenburg stallion L'andiamo who stands at Cornell university (so filly is KWPN reg. B thus no brand). No thoroughbred blood up close, but some further back. Here's her pedigree:

                                  The reason I body clipped her is because her first show is in May, and her coat was sooooooooooooooo long. Last year she was VERY slow to shed...she didn't let it go completely until june or july and with the breed shows coming up, i didn't want to risk her looking like a shaggy mammoth. Weather has warmed up pretty significantly here also so i'm not too worried about her being cold. I haven't begun any saddle training yet...she hasn't even been started with a bit or worn a saddle. She will be bitted next month after having her teeth done. I don't plan on riding her until summer 2011 and at that, i will definitely do so under the watchful eye of trainer...and i think i will also have my vet inspect and x-ray those front legs before riding her. I would never want to hurt this horse...she is my dream horse...and i raised her from a tiny baby. I have all the time in the world to get her going!


                                  • #18
                                    I'll agree with the others about the pasterns. However, i had an arab mare that i bought as a yearling who had pasterns that look to be the same length as your mare has. I started her LIGHTLY at 3, kicked her out in the pasture a few months, brought her back for 30 days, kicked her out for the winter, then started cranking on her normally in her 4yr old year. She's still going strong at 18 and i never had an issue, nor has her current owner.

                                    Downside, i bought a GORGEOUS arab mare with the same gosh darn pasterns. Had her seriously FIVE days, went lame for life in the pasture, and all i saw her doing was trotting and boom three legged lame, tore the deep suspenciary ligament i believe it was, man that was years ago, that mare was 13 when i got her. Passed her vet exam with flying colors, vet never mentioned those pasterns. Lady that sold her to me took her back, which was very kind as i boarded and could not afford a pasture puff.

                                    My experience, which does not rival that of other posters here, the angle of these pasterns is not a red flag to me, its the length. And she's young, she could very well grow into them, so dont lose sleep! If she doesnt, go slow, take your time, dont let your trainer push her if you want her to go slow, start her later in life if you can.

                                    Otherwise, i think she's LOVELY and makes any 2yr old i ever had look like garbage. Mine always decided to look dorky until they hit 4. I dont think those pasterns will hurt you in the breed ring. You might have a picky judge here and there, but at this age, it comes down to the luck of the moment, the horse that looks the most "complete" at the time with the best movement. Dont expect to take home the blues if she goes butt high or grew a foot long in the back but not the neck the night before the show you know?!

                                    She's very pretty.
                                    Your Horse's Home On The Road!


                                    • #19
                                      Lovely filly with a good breeding for dressage.

                                      Interestingly, to my eye it's not the angle of the front pasterns that bothers me a little, but the difference between her hind leg pasterns and her front leg pasterns. I think it's better if all 4 pasterns are very similar/same in angle and length. Would love to hear what breed judge’s comments will be about her pasterns.

                                      But may be she will even them up with age?

                                      That said, I'm with Alianna: I personally can't pass a vet jog myself There are plenty of horses who pass vet exam with flying colors and yet on and off lame and vets can't find out why. Yet, some horses have issues on x-rays but still keep on going strong.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Thanks for the kind words. It may be the photos that make it appear as though her front angles differ greatly from her back. Her back pasterns are mildly sloping as well...and based on the conformation research i've done (ALOT haha)...you WANT the back pasterns to be SLIGHTLY straighter than the fronts. I have measured her and her fronts are 45 degrees and backs are 50 so she's actually right where she should be in that regard, although she has more slope than is currently desireable (i say currently because a few years ago 45 degrees was considered desireable, but this has changed).