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Poetin has been cloned--PICTURE added page 6

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  • Poetin has been cloned--PICTURE added page 6

    This was reported on eurodressage. She is almost 5 months old now.
    Last edited by Joanne; Sep. 1, 2007, 04:04 PM.
    The virtual "woodshed" seems the only remedy for willful fools .

  • #2
    And registered with Zangersheide maybe? I think they are the only registry that accepts clones.

    Should be interesting.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did they have Pictures???
      ~ Kimberlee
      www.SpunkyDiva.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        No pictures. It has not been posted on the Cryozootech web site. You can buy a clone from them, although it is not known if Poetin is one of them.


        http://www.cryozootech.com/index.php?m=home&d=home&l=en
        The virtual "woodshed" seems the only remedy for willful fools .

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, crazy news today about Poetin and Gregor. Thanks for sending the link, I just saw that Gregor has also been put down. He was a beautiful stallion. I feel for Sarah Sturrman.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well now we can give the same horse to all the riders and see who succeeds with what, hmmmmm.
            I.D.E.A. yoda

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm w/ ideayoda. . . give them all the same horse and see which training method is best.
              "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                Well now we can give the same horse to all the riders and see who succeeds with what, hmmmmm.
                good one

                I'm happy to hear that Portin will live on. How much is it to clone the horse?

                Comment


                • #9
                  If I remember correctly from an old article, the cloning fee is somewhere around $150k...
                  Patience pays.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well that is interesting. I wonder if the clone will be as nice as the original or end up having as many problems as the original as well. Honestly it gives me the creeps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can understand cloning for organs (not an actual being, just the organ or tissue, etc)... but I think there comes a point when humans SHOULDN'T be playing human.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                        <snip>...Honestly it gives me the creeps.
                        Eh. It is just a "new" method of reproduction. No different than test-tube, in-vitro, or for that matter AI. When those first came out, people were all and

                        No way of getting around it: None of those methods are "natural"

                        They've been doing it with plants and frogs for decades.

                        In another 10 or 20 years, people won't be batting an eye over this, either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          but I think there comes a point when humans SHOULDN'T be playing human.
                          What should humans play at being then?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EssentialEQST View Post
                            ... but I think there comes a point when humans SHOULDN'T be playing human.
                            Most don't anyway, so why worry?!

                            I kind of wonder if cloning whole animals will prove to be a fad once some of them show that they are not actually replicas of the original.... Our understanding of consciousness is deepening all the time, and I wonder if our ideas about that might impact horse training more eventually. After all, anyone who's trained a horse or ridden one understands that success with an animal is at least equally as much about it's mental makeup as it's physical one - sure that's impacted by genetics, but probably much more so by experience. Was anyone else disturbed by the news about replicating out-of-body experiences? Being able to manipulate consciousness, now that's something to ponder....
                            Last edited by Lancaster9; Aug. 24, 2007, 06:05 AM.
                            The horse, the noblest, bravest, proudest, most courageous, and certainly the most perverse and infuriating animal that humans ever domesticated. - Anne McCaffrey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Last I had read clones didn't live as long as the original - so why pay $150K for a horse which won't live as long as the average horse?
                              Now in Kentucky

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If they used the same techniques as for Dolly the sheep (somatic cell nuclear cloning), the clone is not an exact replica of the adult animal.

                                This method uses a cell nucleus from the adult donor horse, and puts it into an egg cell from some unrelated horse (a surrogate mother cell, if you will). The surrogate mother cell's nucleus is replaced by the donor nucleus -- so the resulting egg cell has the nuclear (chromosomal) DNA of the donor horse.

                                But there is also DNA outside the cell nucleus. Mitochondria (the cell's "powerhouses") are outside the nucleus and contain their own DNA. Both males and females inherit all their mitochondrial DNA from their mother.

                                So the clone will have Poetin's nuclear DNA, but the surrogate's mitochondrial DNA. Even though Mitochondrial DNA is usually not mentioned in the press, it has significant effects. For example, some common causes of human mental retardation are due to problems with mitochondrial DNA.

                                I would really like to see a top race horse cloned twice, using surrogate cells from different mares -- one a very laid back QH or draft, and one a top racing TB broodmare. And see how the clones compare! That might show what effect the surrogate's mitochondria have on the babies!
                                ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  My friend who raises and shows orchids says that the clones (called meristems for orchids) are generally thought not to be quite the equal of the original. Generally not as good--color not as good, longevity of blooms not as good, etc. Not sure if the species to species comparison is valid.

                                  When you go to an orchid show, there is usually a show area and a vendor area. The commercial growers will have meristems of their show plants in the vendor area. They're usually little plants that haven't bloomed yet so they'll have a bunch of baby plants with a picture of their parent. Could this be the future of horse shows???
                                  The Evil Chem Prof

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Some people believe the female line to be extremely important in race horse bloodlines. Mitochondrial DNA is passed from mother to offspring. It doesn't come from the stallion.

                                    I wonder if the surrogate was from the same mare line as Poetin's dam
                                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                                    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Anselcat View Post
                                      If they used the same techniques as for Dolly the sheep (somatic cell nuclear cloning), the clone is not an exact replica of the adult animal.

                                      This method uses a cell nucleus from the adult donor horse, and puts it into an egg cell from some unrelated horse (a surrogate mother cell, if you will). The surrogate mother cell's nucleus is replaced by the donor nucleus -- so the resulting egg cell has the nuclear (chromosomal) DNA of the donor horse.

                                      But there is also DNA outside the cell nucleus. Mitochondria (the cell's "powerhouses") are outside the nucleus and contain their own DNA. Both males and females inherit all their mitochondrial DNA from their mother.

                                      So the clone will have Poetin's nuclear DNA, but the surrogate's mitochondrial DNA. Even though Mitochondrial DNA is usually not mentioned in the press, it has significant effects. For example, some common causes of human mental retardation are due to problems with mitochondrial DNA.

                                      I would really like to see a top race horse cloned twice, using surrogate cells from different mares -- one a very laid back QH or draft, and one a top racing TB broodmare. And see how the clones compare! That might show what effect the surrogate's mitochondria have on the babies!
                                      IIRC, in at least one case, (I think a "primitive" horse cloned in Italy) one mare donated the nuclear DNA, and the egg cell, and carried the embryo/fetus to term.
                                      Janet

                                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Can someone post a link to the eurodressage article? I've been searching and I can't find it. Thanks.

                                        ETA: Never mind, I found it.

                                        Comment

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