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Attn Judges: Can you/would you deduct points for posting on the wrong diagonal?

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  • Attn Judges: Can you/would you deduct points for posting on the wrong diagonal?

    Just curious if posting on the wrong diagonal is legitimate grounds for scoring down a movement or the rider position score in a dressage test. I'm talking about if somebody went around for almost the whole ride posting on the wrong diagonal. Would you mark down? Would you comment on it?
    Last edited by Grintle Sunshine; Jun. 8, 2007, 03:32 PM. Reason: typos

  • #2
    No. No. Maybe if I feel it somehow effected the horses ability to do his job.

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    • #3
      A judge is not supposed to address posting diagonals in a dressage test. Some do, however. This topic appears at least once per year and garners fierce debate each time.

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      • #4
        I was marked down for it in both the movement and rider scores.

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        • #5
          I would have been having a serious talk with the TD over that.
          Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

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          • #6
            To my knowledge that's a hunter/jumper thing, english rail classes, etc. and doesn't pertain to dresssage at all.

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            • #7
              I scribed and the rider was on the wrong diagional the entire test, it really bothered the judge to no end, but the rider was not marked down on it specifically, but perhaps it was noted in the judges handwritten comments at the end...

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              • #8
                That is wrong, Dressage Art. YOu can't give a lower score for posting on the other diagonal. That would go to the TD, and the protesting rider would be right, and you'd be wrong.

                There IS no correct diagonal in dressage. While i am usually on the outside diagonal I can choose to post on the other diagonal at any time for specific reasons both during showing and training; the judge can comment that where the rider chose to change diagonals disrupted the flow of the test, but the judge CANNOT mark a rider down for deciding to post on another diagonal, and no matter how much people here argue to the contrary, it is still that way and it always has been that way, and judges who mark down in dressage for choosing a certain diagonal are judging incotrrectly.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dressage Art

                  For me personally, if I'll see that, I will keep that in mind and if I'll be deciding between 6 and 7 for the rider's score - I'll give him a 6 b/c of the wrong diagonal. If the rider's score will be a strong 6, I will NOT go down to a 5 just b/c the rider was posting on the wrong diagonal.
                  I have to say I take issue with this.....If there is NO wrong diagonal, then I don't understand how you feel justified using that as the deciding factor between a 6 and a 7.

                  I have to say I got a 5 from a judge earlier this year on a stretchy circle and the ONLY comment was "incorrect diagonal". Could that have been any less helpful???
                  |
                  If it's not wrong, then it's NOT WRONG

                  This should be black and white. If judges can't count off for this, they shouldn't take it upon themselves to rewrite the rules.
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                    and judges who mark down in dressage for choosing a certain diagonal are judging incorrectly.

                    I actually have to agree you SLC ( I have been marked as "error of course" for a wrong posting diagonal ).

                    Also THANK YOU for starting your sentences with capitals. See I just knew you could do it, just takes a wee bit more time and patience and does show respect for other members in reading what you write.

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                    • #11
                      The rules are written by the FEI, so they are international ones, not national, and that is where things are different. And at one point there was no posting except for med/ext on the diagonal which made it moot.The use of a particular diagonal can help the scope of the trot, affect different things. So there can be a reason for doing what we happen to consider the wrong one vs some other countrys. That is why is part of the reason it is not marked. What is important it that the diaagonal is changed occasionally in training to not stress one diagonal pair that another.

                      DA you cannot mark down for the 'wrong one', nor comment on it being wrong. You can however say that the horse is out of balance and changing it might affect better timing/application of the aids.

                      There is however one well know trainer that teaches (on a 20 m circle) post true to collect, and change for med/extensions (which helps with straightness).
                      Last edited by ideayoda; Jun. 9, 2007, 06:55 AM.
                      I.D.E.A. yoda

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                      • #12
                        oops nevermind. I just noticed the question was for judges!

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                        • #13
                          Interesting because for a while when I was riding my young horse it helped him tremendously on the circle to stay balanced much better to be on the inside diagonal--hence according to DA I would be "wrong." I wasn't showing at recognized shows, of course, at the time, because he was no where near ready. But my "R" rated judge/instructor and I had this same discussion and we used what worked for him. There wasn't a "correct" diagonal but what influenced and helped him best.

                          For shows, I will pay attention to what diagonal I am on, lol.

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                          • #14
                            In any case make sure that you do post both diagonals consistently when riding to develop both sides of your horse's body evenly. If you only ever post one diagonal you will develop an uneven horse and the fact that technically you are not scored on your diagonals is no excuse for not paying attention to them and not learning to know your diagonals by feel and developing a feel for when posting on which diagonal best helps your horse.

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                            • #15
                              I scribbed today and noticed one rider on the wrong diagonal for a 20m O. The judge didn't really notice it but the circle wasn't marked well as a result of the rider not helping the horse any.

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                              • #16
                                The circle would have to be egg shaped, or the quarters out, or crooked, or the gait impure for the circle not to be marked well. (What was the comment?)
                                I.D.E.A. yoda

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                                  The circle would have to be egg shaped, or the quarters out, or crooked, or the gait impure for the circle not to be marked well. (What was the comment?)
                                  Posting on the wrong diagonal on a circle could certainly make the gait impure with some horses.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Renae View Post
                                    Posting on the wrong diagonal on a circle could certainly make the gait impure with some horses.
                                    Again, there is no "wrong" diagonal. "Wrong" diagonal applies to english rail classes - not dressage. You can say that posting on the OTHER diagonal may help the horse, but don't use the word "wrong."

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
                                      Again, there is no "wrong" diagonal. "Wrong" diagonal applies to english rail classes - not dressage. You can say that posting on the OTHER diagonal may help the horse, but don't use the word "wrong."
                                      If it made the horse off it was certainly the wrong one

                                      That would be the reason for right and wrong diagonals, the majority of the time posting the outside diagonal on a curve is easier for the horse, the times when the opposite is true are rare, and to post any diagonal willy nilly because there is no right or wrong diagonal in dressage is simply laziness.

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                                      • #20
                                        If posting on the false diagonal make the horse 'off' then it has farrrr worse problems than the riders diagonal. Since there are some top trainers who advise posting on the false diagonal on a 20m circle to teach extension, then that presumption is wron.

                                        The basis of reason for our use of a true diagonal is to allow the inside hind to not have to carry so much weight around curves. Military riders (going straight ahead) are merely supposed to change them to allow even development.

                                        The point I was addressing (which remains unanswered) is what was the judges comment????? WHAT comment was given to justify the low score on the circle? The reason? Egg shape/size/lacking bend/impure gait/unsteady tempo????? As a judge, those are the directives (purity/regularity/flexability/etc), and those are the points to be addressed (as well as points of the training scale).
                                        I.D.E.A. yoda

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