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  • ok

    Last edited by fuller0819; Jun. 6, 2007, 02:02 PM.
    to each his own

  • #2
    Doesn't really look like much of anything; if the photo didn't have a caption I'd probably guess that you had just reversed direction. Judging by the rest of the photos, it look like trying for SI might be a bit much. Perhaps some leg-yielding or even just TOF or TOH would be a better use of time.

    Collected walk:
    Us "dressagies" tend to get our undies in a bunch when people go around using "collection" to mean slow or deep, so avoid using the term if you aren't sure what it means. Aside from that, the photo looks to be a trot frame? You're sitting up nicely, but your feet are quite deep in the stirrup and you've developed a chair seat. The horse seem like a real sweet guy, though it doesn't look like you've established much of a contact.

    Extended trot:
    Again, be careful of the terminology! It looks like you're trying really hard to hold things together, I'm guessin that the both of you were pulling on each other judging by your hands. You're heel has started to creep up and you're back in that chair seat.

    You look like a competent rider with a very willing horse, but I'd suggest sticking to the basics for now. Trying to collect or extend when you don't have the working gaits down is not going to help you progress any faster.


    • Original Poster

      sorry to offend you with the word. i really didn't mean to but i would like to be called one, one day in the collected walk it's not slow he is just naturally slow his walk is the slowest thing in the world but we are trying for impulsion at it. i don't understand what you mean by deep could you help me out with that?

      yes in the photo we look like we are pulling, but we are not i just am a little stiff coming from the hunters and my face always looks that way. sorry

      i look like i'm constipated on him
      to each his own


      • Original Poster

        Last edited by fuller0819; Jun. 11, 2007, 05:16 PM.
        to each his own


        • #5

          that my only recent discovery (3 yrs ago) for dressage was because I had a greenbean--and that my only tests have been in the eventing world--but my question is--if you are only 3 months into this (or still a greenie/horse greenie in dressage) why are you doing so much collection?

          I don't know when the "dressage" tests ask for this--but for us eventers--it isn't until you are past prelim...

          we just started getting out last fall-still green for the fact that he has no miles--but --I still want working/relaxed/length/free.


          • #6
            Drop your stirrups and don't take pictures for 6 months. post new pics again then.

            seriously- you are a longgggg way from changing collecting/engaging anything. You are at the bottom rung of the ladder. Chin up and keep after it-but no, that's no more a shoulder in than I'm a super model


            • #7
              I agree with what LynxMynx said-- don't worry about extending or collecting for a bit right now. In that picture under "collected trot" you can tell that he's stopped tracking up, which is what you don't want to happen. Just try to maintain a nice and forward rhythym and the rest will come later.

              and I empathize with making faces when riding-- I've been taking lessons and the two railbirds who watch me (not that I mind! one is my sister and the other a good friend! ) made fun of me so I took a few rides on my own thinking "Ok, when you go to change something RELAX the face!" -- it has sort of worked


              • #8
                What type of bit are you using?


                • #9
                  I must admit I always cringe when I see threads with titles such as this one.....

                  I agree with the other poster...be very careful about the terminology you're using (collected/extended) because that is likely to get under people's skin. think it looks like you're well matched with your horse, and he looks to be a nice handly guy. That being said, I would focus alot less on "collection" and alot more on "relaxation". You're at the beginning stages of learning dressage (just a hunch) and that's ok....but he looks tense...and so do you.

                  Are you riding with an instructor at the moment? If not, I think you should be...even if only once in a while. What type of a bit are you using? It looks like either a d-ring or a kimberwick. If it's the latter, it's not allowed in dressage so I'd be making changes there too.

                  Best of luck to you and your horse..and your continued progression together.


                  • #10
                    In every picture, there is little or no bend in your elbows and your knuckles are pointing down. This causes tension in your arms and hands, which causes tension in your horse. Let your arms hang down at your sides, then bring your hands up by bending your arms at the elbow. You must give your horse a soft receiving hand to go to so he can relax his jaw and softly go to the bit.
                    Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.


                    • #11
                      Fuller......he is a cute and capable horse and looks like a lot of fun to ride,

                      If I were in your shoes....and I am just starting out in dressage I would get my hands on as many copies of dressage dvds as I can ....or go audit a whole heap of dressage clinics....educate yourself to as much as you can so you know what you are striving for...set goals relevant to yours and your hroses stages of training.

                      There is sooo much to learn.....and so much to do when you are riding that if you try and tell yourself you must collect your horse and he is not ready, I assure you that your horse will be worse off.

                      At you level of training and your horses you should be concentraiting on relaxation and rhythm and the basics. No collection or extentions! These dont come to WAY later in the game....and be prepared to go through a few horses before you even start to grasp what this means I dont mean that in a bad way,,,just that not one horse will teach you everything you need to learn.

                      And GET yourself a really good trainer
                      Good luck!


                      • #12
                        Has anyone ever been in the position that, no matter how bad they WANTED to take some lessons, they were just not in a position to be able to take lessons at the moment?

                        To the OP...if you can take some dressage lessons then do it.....an instructer would clear up some of the "technical" aspects some of the posters are talking about. If you can't then I would suggest getting some books or DVD's (as other posters have mentioned) to start to educate your self a bit better.

                        In the meantime, chin up......everyone starts at the bottom.

                        I would also like to echo what some of the other posters have said....don't worry about collection yet. You are not ready. You need to work on your position first. Focus more on a forward, relaxed, even tempo. Leave his head alone for now.

                        Good Luck.


                        • #13
                          The Lesliw Webb series of videos - "Gymnastic Patterns" might help you out.

                          Agree with other posters as well.

                          Are you wearing spurs? Can't tell, and the last canter picture looks like it.
                          *** 4 More Years ***
                          *** 4 More Years ***


                          • Original Poster

                            by the way i'm not fuller0819 this is my friends computer. one issue i have is if i don't try to collect him he will look like a giraffe. he wants to look around with his head all in the air. we are trying to get him under himself and sometimes he is other times not so much in training level what level of collection is there?? does he not have to have a low nice head that is vertical?? thanks for your help
                            to each his own


                            • #15
                              I don't know why you bother posting labels on those movements because none of the labels are accurate or true.

                              What you are doing is not correct by a long shot. And for your instructor/coach to be promoting it as correct is a very bad path to be going down, I suggest you become either a working student for a trainer or get yourself a solid coach.

                              He needs to be changed to a legal bit, he needs to be ridden at the very basics of the training scale and you need equipment that fits you.

                              Collection is a relative term, meaning depending on what you're doing and when is when the term and various stages of collection apply. What you are doing (and labeling as) essentially advanced (or upper level) collection and what you are showing is incorrect.

                              Yes, for training level the horse needs to be on the bit. However you're methood of achieving that is by craming him into a frame and letting him go hollow behind. You are riding severely front to back. The sport isn't about a frame, it's about the hind end and the engagement thereof. I suggest you drop the notion of a headset immediately and start looking to engage the hindquarter.
                              It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"


                              • #16
                                OP, what you should understand is that what dressage people call "collection" and "extension" is a far different thing from what pleasure riders (pleasure meaning rail classes and h/j riders may have the same view) call "collection" and "extension." In the pleasure world, they get the horse to set its head and call it collected...when in fact, collection needs to start at the hind end and involve the whole body. So...while you don't want his head up and looking around like a giraffe, having contact and having his head low and working is not the same as collection.

                                I've learned a lot on this board so don't be discouraged--one thing I've learned is that you have to learn the language in order to get good help!
                                Jennifer Walker
                                Proud owner of Capt Han Solo+, Arabian stallion http://www.capthansolo.com
                                Author, freelance writer http://www.authorjennwalker.com


                                • #17
                                  I saw a few of the pics before you took them down. You have a nice horse, but you're trying to do way too much, too soon. Put him in a snaffle bit (that he likes) and concentrate on forward and relaxed. Don't worry about where his head is.

                                  And you need eyes on the ground to tell you when you're getting it right. Even if you can only get a lesson every few weeks, a good instructor can give you one or two things to work on that will help you immensely.

                                  Good luck and have fun with your horse.

                                  Edited to add: Don't be discouraged. I know whereof I speak. I came from a breed show background and dressage is simply a different world -- and a better one, I think, in terms of really learning to ride. But you have to start at the beginning.
                                  "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                  the best day in ten years,
                                  you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


                                  • Original Poster

                                    i thought he was moving out of his hindend to the bit. but i guess not and everyone has gotten pretty mad about the collected part of it. if its wrong then let me know thats why i put this up but getting mad because i'm misunderstanding well i don't know. isn't collection moving off his hind to the bit with impulsion but covering the same ground as the working trot?? please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks
                                    to each his own


                                    • #19
                                      What you just wrote made no absolute sense.

                                      He's so blocked up front how can he move off his hind end? His hind end is no where near engaged even for a training level test.

                                      Collection is essentially the degree of sit (lowering), or engaging the haunch and is the result of achieving all elements of the scale.

                                      Impulsion is the push from behind which results from looseness (I won't even attempt the German translation), relaxation, tempo, forwardness, shwung (swing) and connection.

                                      I don't think anyone is mad here, but rather dispensing good, practical if not blunt advice.
                                      It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"


                                      • #20
                                        posted twice