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BNT Clinics being dominated by AA's

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  • I never said rich folks suck

    Originally posted by slc2 View Post
    oh so NOW, someone who has more money than you is a piece of trash and should give up their spot.
    i do not agree.
    if you are quoting me i'd like to see the "piece of trash" quote directly the fact is that in every "sport" there are people who dress the part,live the part,talk the talk and like my buddy remarked at the start of hunt season

    "show up every opening meet,on their overwrought fresian and get bucked off before they release the hounds...but they take a great picture"

    the fact is that money talks...and some of the most untalented people in the world have lots of money (ask any one who gives lessons on any of these forums and they will tell you this)...as all the AA like that in that area ? no...or the system would have collapsed under itself already....(besides me and Exvet go back a few years now...and I know that girl works for a living and actually rides a bit)

    but you must wonder about "money" being able to buy anything in todays world...except talent...I'm allfor people having money...I'm all for rich folks...I do not think that the OP started out by saying "ammies just suck" but rather...there is a handful of players who limit the involvment in the sport (one way or another)

    hell there is a handful of people who limit what I do in the sports I want to play in ...I can suck it up and go 10 hours farther away to do <x> or I cannot do <x>....for me I have to just not do it...and I could complain about peopel having shows close to them or show scheduals set for people who do not do hay from april to nov and people who hire judges who prefer their animals....but I don't...

    I do think the animosity of the non pros is pretty amazing....here I am in TN and know exactly one of the players involved and I after reading thru 10 pages of it,wonder what the hopla is about...maybe dressage "pros" should look at how they treat the ammies or maybe some ammies should look at why they are overwrought about pros....just some thing to think about...remember I don't do dressagy anyway...I just watch Exvet do it....
    Last edited by Tamara in TN; May. 17, 2007, 10:06 AM.
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.


    • Originally posted by exvet View Post
      My understanding was that the AA's in the clinic were students of the pros on the sidelines. That's a tidbit I'd like to know about.

      Well if you would like, I am sure you are more than welcome to come audit and watch all the fun for yourself. As for the guts of the gossip, trust me, save the air far & saddle up and ride at home - what goes on here gets repeated everywhere
      exvet,this made me spit my coffee. So, so true.

      But have we ever gotten the anzer to theeeezz quessstyn: Duz the Guuccchhhey Cowgirl have the students of her own weeeth thez big national trainer in ze clinic, or iz theeze only, how you say, a hypotheeetical situation?
      European bloodlines made in America


      • But have we ever gotten the anzer to theeeezz quessstyn: Duz the Guuccchhhey Cowgirl have the students of her own weeeth thez big national trainer in ze clinic, or iz theeze only, how you say, a hypotheeetical situation?

        Honestly I don't know the answer to that question. The AA's that I do know who ride in the clinic are not currently (well at least not as of the last recognized show) her students (of course I don't know the whole ride list for each rendition of this clinic either but what I do know is according to the local scuttlebutt, and it supposedly doesn't change much ). I also know that she's been advertising for students and has a web site. I do not know who rides with her currently. After reading her web site and seeing some pictures I would consider riding with her or at least watching a lesson with that idea in mind if I didn't already have an awesome riding instructor who I have no intention of leaving anytime soon. While I understand everyone's "take" on the thread and the reasons for the not so supportive comments in regards to the OP, her concerns are not isolated and I do believe her. It's just that having lived here for a while, riding with, competing against and simply sitting back and observing the local fish bowl, I think her hopes/expectations/perspective are a little unrealistic; but, who knows if she rubs the right elbows she might get something working in the direction she thinks things should go. I have no where near the money that the crowd she hangs with or needs riding with her has so it's all a moot point for me but my regularity at the shows allows me to be that proverbial fly on the wall whether I intend to be or not It's amazing what people go on and on about in the show barns when you're a nobody.
        Ranch of Last Resort


        • exvet ... if it matters, you're somebody (very special) to us!


          • yes, it really is amazing how freely people talk when you're just standing there if you're a 'nobody'.....it's almost as if you are invisible or something? I can't believe the dish I hear when scribing or grooming or auditing or just sitting watching in the bleachers of a show. wow! Very uncool! Like that song says "haven't you people ever heard of....closing the goddamm door!"

            good thing I never repeat anything....


            • exvet ... if it matters, you're somebody (very special) to us!

              Ah shucks what a nice thing to say. Thank you

              I can't believe the dish I hear when scribing or grooming or auditing or just sitting watching in the bleachers of a show. wow!

              Whether it's the right place wrong time or whatever...there's a never ending supply of it, especially when you're braiding. Sometimes I want to look in the mirror to see if I've started to resemble my horse....I mean I know I may resemble some parts but come'on.. Oh well it's certainly one of the many things that makes life interesting and in a very odd way it's kind of nice to know that you can go from one region to the next and know that things will be relatively the same
              Ranch of Last Resort


              • Hmmm, did anyone notice Gucci girl disappeared and deleted her original and subsequent posts? Maybe getting some heat from the AAs in her area? I think she forgot that the gist of her comments can still be read where posters pulled from her quotes. Well, hopefully she understands that people weren't picking on her per se, but trying to help her see it from the AA's and other points of view...
                "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
                Touchstone Farm


                • Finally, this thread can be put to bed! Though I admit I'm somewhat curious about the real life aftermath of all this. It doesn't look good.
                  Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


                  • My regular instructor and XC coach bring in some pretty BNTs for dressage clinics occasionally. As in the OP's situation, they and their students get first priority for spots. So far, I've only audited, since I feel I'm able to get so many more lessons for the money than clinic rides. I learn more from watching the people who are going at roughly my level than the more advanced ones (both my trainers and others), but the comments on all of the rides are very interesting. They did a couple of mixed group sessions that seemed to work out very well, also. I *definitely* felt that there was a strong trickle-down effect - both of them used several phrases and exercises they got in their own or others' rides in the clinics, and passed them on to me in a way I found helpful. It didn't seem like the clinicians minded teaching the lower level horses or students. If either of them had expressed that, I doubt they would have been invited back - it doesn't create a positive learning environment. Why would you feel that they owe their competitors spots in preference to their students?
                    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.


                    • Well maybe OP has left because she was invited to the clinic... Anyways it seems kinda greedy to me to be whining about not lessoning with this BNT when she already has one come in monthly. A little hypocritical when she hasn't yet invited the pro's from the OT BNT clinic to her BNT clinic, but expects to be riding anyways.

                      Originally posted by EXVET
                      Since I don't know for sure if Gucci Cowboy is referrring to the same clinic or not, I have a question. How did the other pro, get a guaranteed slot? If we are referring to the same situation, well then, we both know the answer to that one. It would behoove the other pro(s) if they really want to ride in these clinics with this clinician to follow suit.
                      The other pro got in because she was invited by host pro. NO other connections invovled. I don't see how that would offend the other pro's in town.

                      The BNT has stated several times that his/her time would be much better spent teaching the professional riders, who in turn, can pass on the information and techniques to their students, instead of the AA students getting it directly from the BNT.
                      True, but the BNT has also enjoyed some of the AA's in the clinic. The BNT has also stated some of these AA's are to stay in the clinic no matter what.

                      Anyways, things seem to be shaping up for the OP so we can all let this thread rest!
                      Last edited by Lazeo; May. 18, 2007, 12:22 AM.


                      • Anyways, things seem to be shaping up for the OP so we can all let this thread rest!

                        Yes........finally. About time one of you stopped by
                        Ranch of Last Resort


                        • I have been following this thread and have some observations.

                          The host has invited several trainers to ride with this BNT. I can think of at least 4 who have ridden and another who has been asked. And now Gucci Cowgirl is on the schedule. At least one of the pros who has been invited has ridden with the host in the past. The BNT has voiced that she wants certain riders to be included. The other slots are up to the host to fill. The BNT has also been invited by the GMO to do a clinic in the fall so maybe some others will be able to get in on that.

                          Judging by when Gucci Cowgirl edited out all of her messages, I bet she was invited after that and the host was probably not aware of her thread at the time of the invitation. So she probably got invited anyway and could have saved herself a lot of punishment by just asking the host again to put her on the list. I wonder if the BNT knows about the thread....and if an AA got the boot.

                          Having organized clinics for years, I have a waitlist but build my schedule by who came last month and who is a steady, reliable rider. We have had several pros in our clinics. It has simply been a matter of them asking to be placed on the list, and an opening coming available. Openings always pop up due to lameness issues, scheduling conflicts, and life in general. So nearly everyone on my waitlist has had an opportunity to ride.

                          Exvet makes a good point about people talking and not realizing others are listening. (Wink) We all make those mistakes at times. The anonymity of this forum also encourages people to be frank but sometimes the locals figure out who is being discussed and it can cause hurt feelings.


                          • Kay (and others who organize BNT clinics) ... I have a question.

                            Rider A has been a regular in the clinic. Has issue, must cancel.

                            Waiting B fills in for the clinic.

                            Next month, does Rider A get the spot back, or does Waiting B become Rider B?

                            What if Rider A needs to miss another clinic? Does Waiting B get first chance at that opening again, or does Waiting C?

                            And do these guidelines apply equally to muti-day clinics? That is Rider A gives up her space in a 3-day clinic (a ride each day). Does Waiting B get to choose all the rides, or only one?



                            • I can speak for myself. When riding for years in a BNT clinic (4 days a clinic every 6 weeks), I was unable to ride once. I knew a trainer who was needing help with his piaffe so asked trainer to ride in my spot. well, trainer never gave me my spot back! And, as it turned out, trainer arranged for BNT to come to his barn (where I boarded and trained) to give clinics and I was never invited to ride in those clinics either. I felt totally snaked! Of course, the trainer clinic was filled with other 'pros' with upper level issues and better horses, so BNT was happier. Looking back, I should have offered my riding spot to another AA with a lower level horse......I might still be riding w/ BNT.
                              or not? who knows.

                              I moved on to my premier BNT whom I adore and happily gave him buckets of money, until he shat on me too (I'm not alone: there is a mountain of dumped students behind this BNT) But I have the education and my videotapes to keep me warm at night.


                              • Original Poster

                                the reason I deleted my posts was because I went back and read them, and realized how bitchy they sounded...days before I was put on the list for the clinic

                                however, the reason this is hard for me to deal with, is because the BNT who I respect and love as a friend, and who I worked for/lived with for 6 years, refuses to come to this town because of its reputation, and how she was treated (not by these particular people though). If it wasn't for the other BNT's that come to our farm (who refuse to do clinics, will only do unadvertised, private lessons for the same reason)that just seems a little unfair, and though I realise that AA's have every right to have great, consistant help, so do pros! (especially ones who are willing to pay!)

                                edited to say - watch me get my ass bucked off tomorrow - maybe it'll knock some sense into me!
                                Nothing worth having comes easily.


                                • When one of my regulars cannot make it, and I offer it to a waitlisted person, the next time, the slot goes back to my regular. If someone on the waitlist declines a second time, I usually don't ask again. I usually overbook so I can absorb a cancellation or two. Most of the slots are filled by clients of the local trainer we work with, but certainly not exclusively. Some are neighbors, some are friends, and some are people who see the clinic posted on the newsletter and website calendars. Every time or two, we have a real greenie and I try not to put them at the end of the day. Sometimes we have really green horses too. But overall we have a variety from Training to FEI. And my regulars are the bread and butter that keep the clinics going - about 8 years now.

                                  Some trainers in our area have clinics but elect not to publicize them. So those clinics are very exclusive and unless you have an "in" with the host, you don't even know to audit, much less try to get a ride. I like to see lots of clinics and educational activities on the website and newsletter calendars so that it looks like we have an active dressage community.

                                  Regarding the deleted postings from Gucci Cowgirl, my first thought was that now that you had deleted your original postings that everyone would remember them worse than they may have been. The retelling is always a little more extreme (and possibly fun) than the actual. I appreciate your humility and wish you luck in the clinic tomorrow.


                                  • I forgot to mention that if a regular cancels one or all rides, I fill it with one or more people from the waitlist. Sometimes the waitlisted person can only ride one day. If a person has a horse on layup, I try to get them back in as soon as their horse is sound again if they were a regular. I'm flexible and try to work with everyone. Sometimes the cancelling person comes up with a replacement. If I can't fill it, I'm happy enough to have them fill the spot.

                                    Sometimes this makes it very difficult to manage and it's a lot of trouble and makes me crazy, but it's working.


                                    • Original Poster

                                      There are a LOT of clinics here, (every weekend quite possibly) you'd think enough for everyone to have some help at least once every 6 months or so!

                                      I talked to the organizer of the 'L' program (judges seminar/course) months ago and have volunteered to ride 3 horses as demo rides...so everyone can laugh at my expense - I don't mind people ripping me apart!
                                      Nothing worth having comes easily.


                                      • Originally posted by Gucci Cowgirl View Post
                                        There are a LOT of clinics here, (every weekend quite possibly) you'd think enough for everyone to have some help at least once every 6 months or so!

                                        I talked to the organizer of the 'L' program (judges seminar/course) months ago and have volunteered to ride 3 horses as demo rides...so everyone can laugh at my expense - I don't mind people ripping me apart!
                                        That's a silly comment, IMO. If you're a pro who is devoting hundreds of dollars a month to clinic with BNTs you'd better not make a shambles of a test that's "lower" than third level.

                                        That's not to say you won't be on a less experienced or more sensitive horse than you are rider, or that "L" program people may have issues with you ... but I'd think you'd better ride like the wind, GC, after all this whining about riding with a third BNT.


                                        • Original Poster

                                          what I meant, AllWeatherGal, was that in these 'L' programs, they make you ride with TONS of mistakes (they have even asked people to fall off during a test, and have their horses jump out of the arena!)

                                          Plus, I am taking a 3.5 yr old filly, a stallion who is very very green, and a 6 year old gelding who is very green as well. I expect us to give the 'L' program people lots of things to discuss!

                                          What fun would it be if I took the 14 yr old GP horse??
                                          Nothing worth having comes easily.