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long lining at a dressage show as warmup

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  • long lining at a dressage show as warmup

    i was recently informed (thankfully by a fellow competitor, not the show staff) that this is illegal. and im curious as to why. i use it as a warmup, instead of lunging, because with all my mares issues, side reins kinda confuse her unless shes stretching into them. and frankly, i want to be able to watch her go how i woudl ride her (which in long lines i can) to see how she is moving that day.

    so why is this illegal, but a trainer can warm your horse up for you and toss you on 5 minutes before your test? or you can lunge in side reins. or you can warm up with your horse's head literally pinned to its chest.

    yes i am a bit bitter, as i LOVE my long lines as warmup, they just allow me a better connection to my mare than lunging ever will.

  • #2
    Originally posted by shiloh04 View Post
    i was recently informed (thankfully by a fellow competitor, not the show staff) that this is illegal. and im curious as to why. i use it as a warmup, instead of lunging, because with all my mares issues, side reins kinda confuse her unless shes stretching into them. and frankly, i want to be able to watch her go how i woudl ride her (which in long lines i can) to see how she is moving that day.

    so why is this illegal, but a trainer can warm your horse up for you and toss you on 5 minutes before your test? or you can lunge in side reins. or you can warm up with your horse's head literally pinned to its chest.

    yes i am a bit bitter, as i LOVE my long lines as warmup, they just allow me a better connection to my mare than lunging ever will.
    Not sure, but maybe it is a space issue?
    http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...nibbystrot.jpg
    http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...t=IMGP0754.jpg

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    • #3
      Traffic problem I would imagine! Imagine a warm-up ring full of long reiners. Some people have a problem staying out of the way when riding.
      ... _. ._ .._. .._

      Comment


      • #4
        I do find it frustrating that there is rarely information as to why a rule change is made.

        Often rule changes happen out of a need. Perhaps it was becoming too pervasive and obtrusive in one particular area, abusive by a small community of users or perhaps to bring in line with international ( FEI) type rules.

        I think the most obvious reason is as they pertain to the whip , the length and the use from the ground as seen in the FEI rules

        real or perceived issues who knows.

        Animal rights activists are starting to creep into all our activities. Perhaps there is a need to refine the activities that can easily happen "behind the scenes" and bring them under public scrutiny
        _\\]
        -- * > hoopoe
        Procrastinate NOW
        Introverted Since 1957

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        • #5
          How about a seperate area or time for lunging like many of the hunter shows have ? One could long line there. I am a great fan of long lining ,also.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            at this particular show, there was PLENTY of warmup space. i chose an area about twice the size of a standard dressage arena where there was one rider using about half of it, and i kept my mare in a circle, out of her way, and i dont long line with a whip (mare woudl end up in a different county if i did, shes been abused with one at some point, as is obvious by her behavior when one is in her presence).

            so abuse of warmup space, or traffic problems. give us the same rules as the lungers. i long line like i lunge. my mare just likes the security and communication of that outside line, just like she rides better off my outside rein. she is more responsive to my half-halfs and vocal requests when long-linging, and is thus safer. maybe everyone's horse isnt like that. i just dont get it.

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            • #7
              shiloh04 - I imagine the use of long-lining is not allowed because you really couldn't control your horse if she decided to up and go (unless you're a really good water skier:-)). You said yourself that you can't use a whip with her... what if somebody else came close to her with one?

              No need to get nasty about others in the warm-up ring that go by the rules.
              Siegi Belz
              www.stalleuropa.com
              2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
              Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, first off, can anybody point us to the actual RULE?? Is it a USDF rule or an FEI rule or a local rule??

                I'm a big fan of long-lining too and while I don't "do" dressage this would be yet another reason why I *wouldn't* do dressage!
                "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                  Well, first off, can anybody point us to the actual RULE?? Is it a USDF rule or an FEI rule or a local rule??
                  USEF rule
                  DR 121.7

                  ...
                  Only one lunge line is permitted only while lungeing. Driving or long lining is prohibited.
                  ...
                  Janet

                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would imagine it is a safety concern.

                    Can you imagine 10 people trying to do it in a limited warm up area, mixed with horses under saddle?
                    Janet

                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't understand either. Most places I have been have plenty of room to warm up. I usually chose a field away from everyone else.
                      As far as a control issue? I have WAY more control long lining then I do just lunging. So it doesn't make sense to me at all.
                      http://community.webshots.com/user/snafflebitz

                      "My Saddlebred can do anything your horse can do" Clique

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                      • #12
                        Thanks Janet! But my question is the same as the OP's... What's the difference between longeing and long-lining in terms of safety concerns? IMO the horse is BETTER under control in long-lines...
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hoopoe View Post
                          I do find it frustrating that there is rarely information as to why a rule change is made.
                          At the time a rule change is proposed, there is a description of the reason for the change, on the proposal. All USEF members are invited to submit comments on the rule change proposals.

                          This change went into effect Dec 1 2005, so the time to comment would have been the fall of 2004.

                          I expect that, if you email Janine Malone, she can tell you the reason.
                          Janet

                          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            exactly my point. and i am not getting nasty. my mare has no issues with others riding past with whips. if she did, i wouldnt take her in areas where i knew others were riding with whips. she has the ussue with them being in a position to be used on her, and i have ridden her next to a horse with the whip between our horses many times with no issues. even when she was touched with the whip, she was fine.

                            as far as a horse going up, a horse going up in side reins is FAR worse off than a horse going up in long lines. in side reins, they are much more likely to flip over. now THAT would cause soem chaos and probably more than a few spooks in an arena full of riders warming up. in long lines, you can easily release the pressure so the horse can come back down rather than flipping over. as far as taking off, my horse has "taken off" many more times lunging to the point where ive had to let go of the line than she ever has or will in long-lining, because...i have an outside half-halt as well as an inside one.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Long lining is terrific for many reasons. I recommend it to many of my clients (I'm in the equine physio & conditioning field). However I also offer lessons on lunging and long lining.

                              I do not recommend it for those owners that I feel would have trouble doing it perhaps because of the coordination it takes, confidence of the handler, horse personality etc. There are safety factors to consider. Though I've seen some people lunge their horses (at shows of varying disciplines) that shouldn't be doing so.

                              The rule against it at shows is for a couple reasons discussed in this thread. Not all shows have the room. Some do and some don't. We know that if it wasn't against the rules someone would expect to do it at a facility where there just wasn't room. It's also not an exercise for everyone as it takes experience and practice to develop the skill effectively.

                              Kudos to long liners out there. You probably have a better horse for it.
                              ~Still looking for Cashton

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Long lining isn't done on a circle so takes up more space. Even if you have a special area for it - which most places don't have space for, they can barely handle lunging - the possibility of disaster is far greater than just longing.

                                Has to be a safety issue. If those of you asking would come to my area and watch the warmup ring where DQs muck about with absolutely no concern for the other riders, you would understand.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Elegante E View Post
                                  Long lining isn't done on a circle so takes up more space.
                                  Oh for God's sake, of COURSE it is. Study up.

                                  If the "safety" issue is people ground driving (as opposed to long-lining - there is a difference!) their horses TO/FROM the area in which they intend to long-line (in a circle), then perhaps that would be a valid concern.... But if so, then it would IMO have been better addressed by a more carefully worded rule change.
                                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Here is the original rule change proposal, complete with the contact email
                                    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleCh...pdf/499-04.pdf

                                    The reason given is
                                    "Clarification purposes regarding saddlery and equipment permitted for schooling. To promote good riding and training practices."
                                    Janet

                                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Lots of rules exist for the safety of others, not just ourselves. Maybe your mare is fine, but other horses under similar circumstances are not ...

                                      I've seen a frightening number of warmups where riders don't watch where they are going at ALL. Fair enough, most of them are lower-level riders and some of them new to dressage, but their eyes are focused on the horse under them and ... well, crashes between are not uncommon.

                                      What if one of those riders does his lenthen into your lines?

                                      I think I'm just echoing Equibrit's comment.

                                      In any case, those of you who say "most places" ... do you mean in your area, or most places throughout the United States, the geography for which the USEF is responsible? There's certainly not room enough for this sort of thing at most of the venues in MY area.

                                      So, if you want to know WHY, take Janet's great advice "email Janine Malone, she can tell you the reason"

                                      If you want to long line your horse, do it at home, before you load up.

                                      If you want to get the rule changed, work together and submit a rule change request (the process is available to ALL USEF members in good standing).
                                      *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Janet View Post
                                        Here is the original rule change proposal, complete with the contact email
                                        http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleCh...pdf/499-04.pdf

                                        The reason given is
                                        "Clarification purposes regarding saddlery and equipment permitted for schooling. To promote good riding and training practices."
                                        Oh, THAT's priceless...!!! Terminally insane, of course, but priceless...

                                        Thanks again for the research, Janet, you are the ace!
                                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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