• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Anyone know what might cause this?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anyone know what might cause this?

    I went to look at a pony recently (yes, I'm sure you guys can all guess which one). The 1st two times he was GREAT, a dream to ride, really. The 3rd... he was almost like a completely different horse.

    It was 90 degrees out. Some little kid had already tried him that morning, I don't know how long for. I just walked and trotted him. He kept trying to pull his head down-- not really forcefully, but still was doing it fairly often-- even when I had him standing still. He DID NOT do that the 1st two times. So, I'm wondering-- was it a discomfort issue, or could this just be the way he really is, all the time? (Please, NO!!)
    In terms of possible discomfort, he is kind of narrow, and I was using my Wide-tree 15 year old Niedersuss Symphony (weren't those the ones with a reputation for being back-torturers, now that I think of it?) with just one of the thin baby pads they had there-- I would have preferred to use w/ my JPC square pad & Mattes half pad for the cushioning. Also, I do not know when the last time the current owners had his teeth floated was. (I forgot to ask. Stupid of me, I know) And I was using a different girth, not sure if that would make a difference-- it was an Ovation Airform w/ double elastic, in an 18-inch. His usual is the leather one from Just For Ponies, in a 20-inch size. He's in a French-Link Eggbutt snaffle.

    Anyone have any ideas on what might have been wrong? I really loved him before this went on!

    Edit: The owners had the vet out for shots, teeth were checked, vet said teeth are fine. Strike that one down...
    Last edited by Sparkling_Sunset; Oct. 13, 2009, 09:16 AM.

  • #2
    Full moon?
    Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!

    Comment


    • #3
      That happened to me, first couple of rides were great then all of a sudden bam, twenty minutes was all he could take. I was like what happened. It was (is) my saddle, he needs a medium and I have a medium wide and even with padding it just didn't work for him, hence why I am on the search for a new saddle. If you can try another saddle and see if he still does it. That's the easiest way to figure that out.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Rusty Stirrup View Post
        Full moon?
        Heyyy... seriously, here!

        Comment


        • #5
          If the little kid was hanging on his mouth that morning, his back might have been sore, or he might just have been taking out his pony wrath on you.

          Rooting is often caused by a weak topline. When a horse does not have his head and neck to balance, he will often hold in his back. It gets tense and sore. So, yes, he might stretch it down even at a standstill.

          Was this a once in a lifetime behavior? No. Is it common for the pony? We don't know. I tell people when they are trying horses to buy that it is like peeping out the curtain to see what the weather is doing. You get a quick glimpse. If it's snowing, that means it has snowed before, it's snowing now, and it will will snow again. You just don't know when or how often.

          Second on my list of seller's lies is "OMG, he's never done that before!" Unless I am flat on my back in the dirt, that one always makes me laugh. (First on the list is fear of loss: "a trainer is coming to look at him sight unseen, no vetting, and they are bringing their trailer to buy him Saturday, unless you buy him now.")

          So, whatever a horse does in a sales trial, it has done before and it will do again. If a horse bucks you off in the sales trial, he will buck you off again. Those sales rarely work out.

          The pony will pull or root or hang again. Should you decide to buy him, you will need to learn quickly how to engage his hindquarters so he does not hang on your hands.

          Sometimes by the third ride, the horse has the rider's number, rather than vice versa. If you were using the same saddle the first two times, that is not the problem. The horse decides, "I really don't care for this riding style/weight of rider/level of rider."

          Sometimes by the third or fourth ride, the riders have the horses' number. Suddenly they ride the horse really well.

          For that reason, I tell buyers to try the horse at least three times. If you can do a lease/option to buy for two weeks to a month, even better.

          Comment


          • #6
            Sometimes by the third ride the horse/pony really has the riders number, and what might have been just a little testing in the bridle or hopping, or whatever, becomes a naughty behavior. It is the honeymoon period wearing off. Also the earlier in the day ride may have been where he started testing the contact, and finished it up with you. I would ride several more times if that is an option, preferably several days in a row, when trainer has not ridden pony. Or, assume that the behavior is there, and decide whether you can cope with it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Did you check his back? Any needle marks or bumps in odd places? I don't know you or the pony, but a major vetting will tell you more. I vote for more trial rides and show up much earlier than planned. The pony may have had "help" for the first ride and it wore off by the time you arrived.

              Is the behavior something you want to live with? We have bought lovely beasties that then needed osteopathic and dental work, saddle adjustment, etc. About a year later, the issues have been sorted out and the horse goes on to be a wonderful menber of the family for many years.
              Intermediate Riding Skills

              Comment


              • #8
                Ummmm....did you put your hand under the saddle after you got on and make sure it had plenty of clearance? You can seriously and permanently damage a horses back with a saddle that is too wide. You can create discomfort at best, a fistula of the withers at worst. In my experience, most ponies will snatch the reins if they feel they can, and I don't even think it's a bad thing, they're ponies! They're opportunistic! Also, horses are often perfect angels in try out rides, because they're giving a stranger the benefit of the doubt and trying to understand you, after the third time he knows you better, and frankly, HE'S TESTING YOU NOW, not vice versa. Honestly, my opinion is anything beyond two trial rides is a bit rude to the horse, and I think it is rather rude of his present owners to let multiple people try him in a day. Have you had a trainer assess him? If you're serious about it and can't decide the proper etiquette would be to ask if the owner would consider a trial period - maybe they will maybe not. Personally, when I have a sale horse, I would never let multiple trial rides occur in one day, I will also tell parents that if a child is coming without a trainer they will be given and charged for a lesson, and if people bring their own saddle I make double sure it fits and use extra padding. If it does not fit they may not use it.
                "Capture the horse's confidence to obtain his consent." -General L'Hotte

                Comment


                • #9
                  The ace wore off?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                    The ace wore off?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                      The ace wore off?
                      Or some other drug - no joke

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seriously folks?
                        Horse tried twice in one day...newer riders who may be timid and a bit clutchy or nervous and bouncing a bit...all on a 90 degree day...horse puts his head down a handful of times but not forcefully and this means the horse was drugged?

                        Almost any horse would do the same..or at least show some sign of being hot and annoyed or tired or whatever.

                        If the horse was perfect twice before, why assume the third time after being ridden most of the day in 90 degree heat is it's normal behavior?

                        If that nervous, ask for a trial period. The sellers may allow those. That way you can evaluate the animal over several rides in different surroundings in different temperatures. Although please don't be surprised if the horse acts a tad differently in a new place with a new rider.

                        Horses aren't machines...there's no such thing as a 100% perfect 100% of the time in *all* situations horse.
                        You jump in the saddle,
                        Hold onto the bridle!
                        Jump in the line!
                        ...Belefonte

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          'that means the horse was drugged????'

                          You get around much?

                          It's entirely possible. A little bit of Ace is very often used to cover up behavioral and training problems. It tends to make horses get into a 'cruise control' mode, they just jog along without showing their problems or protesting to what the rider is doing.

                          Especially if the seller (or seller's agent) thinks the horse might be a little too fresh and frisky for you, or he KNOWS the horse is too strong or fresh for most people, you may very well find the horse is given some Ace before you get on him.

                          First of all, I find it unbelievable that a little kid riding a horse around for a little while would make a horse sore in the back by pulling on the reins. IF it's true, the horse is too unsound to buy for dressage. That just should not make a horse sore. If it does, the infant has the arms of Arnold Schwarzenneger.

                          I think that most of the time, when a horse is ridden earlier in the day and then stands for a while and then comes out and works again, when you see a horse that is uncomfortable, stiff, pulling down on the reins, you very well may be looking at a horse with some arthritis, who is stiff and sore. Nothing like standing a couple hours in the barn between two rides, to bring out stiffness in the horse.

                          But the main problem is that there are a great many reasons horses pull down like that. First of all, it's possible it's just how you ride. You might have too fixed a hand, or you may have a tentative, inconsistent contact the horse doesn't understand and gets unsteady in. I think anyone who finds horses pull down on the reins needs to consider that it may solely be due to an inconsistent connection. One is often very tentative when trying out a horse, often without realizing it, so it's a definite maybe.

                          Or the horse may expect to be stretching on a long rein during that part of the ride out of habit. Many people come out and ride on the buckle for a long time at the start of their ride. Efforts to pick the horse up often meet with protest with that kind of situation.

                          Or he may not have been trained properly so he has no idea when he should stretch and when he should not.

                          If a horse goes for a part of the ride, then starts to pull down, I think it's quite likely that there's something the rider is doing that is causing it. Either not following the horse's routine, or the horse perceives a flaw in the riding and becomes less submissive to the aids.

                          I would also say that your ride wasn't sufficient for a tryout of a horse to purchase. You have to canter the horse during a tryout. Unless you feel the horse would hurt you if you did (and then you shouldn't be considereing buying him).

                          It isn't always bad to have a problem with a horse during a tryout. To a point, one can expect SOME miscommunication or issues. A rider can often change how he's riding and training to fix training problems, with an instructor's guidance if he doesn't know how. And is riding may benefit from working through the issue.

                          But it IS bad if there's a problem, and you don't know what's causing it, and you seek help on a bb! The people on the bb didn't see the ride and can only guess at what went wrong.

                          The right thing to do is to take your instructor or trainer with you, or a more experienced person who can see what's going on, and offer their opinion about how likely you are to be able to fix it once you have the horse. Further, a more experienced person who is very familiar with how you ride, both your strengths and weaknesses as well as your ability to work through problems encountered in training, like your trainer or instructor, needs to ride the horse before you ride it so s/he can see if the horse has some problems the seller is trying to hide.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, I agree with slick, in general, at least the first two or three sentences asserting its entirely possible to run across a horse for sale who's been "sorted out" with a little tranq or something when you are shopping. Personally, its something I'd keep my eyes open for. I may agree with the rest, too, but we'll never know because I'll never get through it all, but she' not considering the very real possiblity that the conditions for the third ride were different, such as the work and the weather.

                            Ride the horse again. Have you?
                            Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              or the kid did something to the pony that "taught" it that was a good option, and 1 or 2 rides will teach it that is a wrong belief.

                              pony doesn't have to be sore or anything bad....

                              also, kind of unfair to ride in a saddle that is hugely a poor fit -- perhaps you can borrow from someone if the owners don't have something to fit him so that you can do a more fair assessment?


                              ps

                              have you asked the sellers about the behavior? lots of people out there are quite honest when directly questioned. not saying to trust them, but it is still good information to see what they say.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                                'that means the horse was drugged????'

                                You get around much?

                                It's entirely possible. A little bit of Ace is very often used to cover up behavioral and training problems. It tends to make horses get into a 'cruise control' mode, they just jog along without showing their problems or protesting to what the rider is doing.

                                Especially if the seller (or seller's agent) thinks the horse might be a little too fresh and frisky for you, or he KNOWS the horse is too strong or fresh for most people, you may very well find the horse is given some Ace before you get on him.

                                First of all, I find it unbelievable that a little kid riding a horse around for a little while would make a horse sore in the back by pulling on the reins. IF it's true, the horse is too unsound to buy for dressage. That just should not make a horse sore. If it does, the infant has the arms of Arnold Schwarzenneger.

                                I think that most of the time, when a horse is ridden earlier in the day and then stands for a while and then comes out and works again, when you see a horse that is uncomfortable, stiff, pulling down on the reins, you very well may be looking at a horse with some arthritis, who is stiff and sore. Nothing like standing a couple hours in the barn between two rides, to bring out stiffness in the horse.

                                But the main problem is that there are a great many reasons horses pull down like that. First of all, it's possible it's just how you ride. You might have too fixed a hand, or you may have a tentative, inconsistent contact the horse doesn't understand and gets unsteady in. I think anyone who finds horses pull down on the reins needs to consider that it may solely be due to an inconsistent connection. One is often very tentative when trying out a horse, often without realizing it, so it's a definite maybe.

                                Or the horse may expect to be stretching on a long rein during that part of the ride out of habit. Many people come out and ride on the buckle for a long time at the start of their ride. Efforts to pick the horse up often meet with protest with that kind of situation.

                                Or he may not have been trained properly so he has no idea when he should stretch and when he should not.

                                If a horse goes for a part of the ride, then starts to pull down, I think it's quite likely that there's something the rider is doing that is causing it. Either not following the horse's routine, or the horse perceives a flaw in the riding and becomes less submissive to the aids.

                                I would also say that your ride wasn't sufficient for a tryout of a horse to purchase. You have to canter the horse during a tryout. Unless you feel the horse would hurt you if you did (and then you shouldn't be considereing buying him).

                                It isn't always bad to have a problem with a horse during a tryout. To a point, one can expect SOME miscommunication or issues. A rider can often change how he's riding and training to fix training problems, with an instructor's guidance if he doesn't know how. And is riding may benefit from working through the issue.

                                But it IS bad if there's a problem, and you don't know what's causing it, and you seek help on a bb! The people on the bb didn't see the ride and can only guess at what went wrong.

                                The right thing to do is to take your instructor or trainer with you, or a more experienced person who can see what's going on, and offer their opinion about how likely you are to be able to fix it once you have the horse. Further, a more experienced person who is very familiar with how you ride, both your strengths and weaknesses as well as your ability to work through problems encountered in training, like your trainer or instructor, needs to ride the horse before you ride it so s/he can see if the horse has some problems the seller is trying to hide.

                                Do you think that a horse on Ace would be responsive to voice commands? (Not trying to sound accusing or anything; I'm wondering here) Second time I rode him, I cantered him (on a lungeline). I was holding onto my Courbette strap with both hands, so really couldn't use the reins to stop and told him "waaalk", and he came down nicely from the canter, ON VOICE ALONE. Very useful!

                                FWIW, I was cantering on my own in the past, back in March of this year. But that was before I had my accident.
                                So unfair-- only 19 and I already have arthritis. (I got my elbow partially destroyed when that happened) If you're wondering the details, check out my H/J forum post entitled " Do you think they drugged this pony?" (And check out their responses to that question in H/J Land!)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It's rooting folks not leaping into the air breathing fire. when the pony roots, just dont give with your upper body, give with your pelvis and the pony will quit rooting in a week. out of all the crazy crap for a sale horse to do, i'd brush off rooting no problem... use it as a bargaining tool to get the price down. use your head!
                                  www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                                  chaque pas est fait ensemble

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by narcisco View Post
                                    Rooting is often caused by a weak topline. When a horse does not have his head and neck to balance, he will often hold in his back. It gets tense and sore. So, yes, he might stretch it down even at a standstill.
                                    Yep. Stretching down is a sign of back pain.
                                    --o0o--

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Is this pony very fit? I am bringing a horse back into work and he does this when he's tired.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Lora View Post
                                        Or some other drug - no joke
                                        Exactly what i was thinking!!! they used the drug in the morning and it wore off by the time you got on . It's very sad but it happens.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X