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My horse "flips his pole"???

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  • My horse "flips his pole"???

    Anyone know what this means? I had a lesson today and my instructor said that a couple of times when she was riding him. I was too far away at the time to ask her what it meant and she was gone before I thought about it again.

    Just curious as to what she meant.

  • #2
    Well, that depends. Did she say he "flips his poll" - meaning the nucchal ligament - or "flips his pole" - which I would assume is the gelding way of flipping the bird?
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

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    • Original Poster

      #3
      LOL...with this guy I guess it could be either. She kept mentioning it when she was working with him and the bit.

      Comment


      • #4
        The poll, anatomically speaking though, is the occiput.

        The nuchal ligament would more likely be referred to as the crest.
        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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        • #5
          Did she mean flipping his head? Which would typically indicate rough hands or mouth problems on the horse.
          "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

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          • #6
            Flipping the crest is something that happens sometimes when bending the horse's neck. You can see the fat on the top of the horse's neck suddenly lean the opposite way, so his mane can flop over from one side of his neck to the other, if his mane is short.

            Most people on the internet think it's a good thing and indication of correct bending. I think this came from one American instructor originally; I've yet to find it in a book like CTHR or similar works.

            Comment


            • #7
              Most people on the internet? Are you implying it's not a good thing? Ever? Or only in certain circumstances?

              If a horse is correctly changing bend, I have been told the nuchal ligament will "flip" and that's just because it has to - so a good thing.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                JB....that must be what she was talking about because I could see his mane flipping from one side to the other when she would mention it.....as long as it's a good thing I'm happy!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nuchal Flip

                  I have been told by many old time Dressage riders (mostly German and Danish) that it is a good thing to see the 'crest' flop. I have never seen it on a stiff, unconnected horse.

                  Flipping the pole...that sounds more like a one hoof salute
                  If you can see it, your doing it wrong...

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                  • #10
                    I had never considered this; but, my first thought is, I’m sure is what you want is bend through the entire body; especially the rib cage; what you are describing, however, sounds like flexion of the jaw, with head setting; not true bend which is, I hope, not what you really want; interesting question; unfortunately, I am no longer able to ride "whenever" but, whenever I do again, I will definitely notice; of course I will be being led at the walk, but, still... What is everyone else noticing? The change through the center, two half circles in the old 2nd level test; would be a figure where that would happen; if, I am understanding correctly
                    breeder of Mercury!

                    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

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                    • #11
                      I had never considered this; but, my first thought is, I’m sure is what you want is bend through the entire body; especially the rib cage; what you are describing sounds like flexion of the jaw, with head setting; not true bend which is, I hope, what you really want; interesting question; unfortunately, I am no longer able to ride "whenever" but, whenever I do again, I will definitely notice; of course I will be being led at the walk, but, still... What is everyone else noticing? The change through the center, two half circles in the old 2nd level test; would be a gfigure where that woud happen; if, I am understanding correctly
                      breeder of Mercury!

                      remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If a horse is evenly bent throughout his body, that includes the neck.... so this flipping is an indication of bend.
                        Whether it is through the body or not is up to you to feel with your seat.

                        I know I was thrilled to see it, at was my trainer, when my guy offered it up. He is getting softer and more balanced all the time.

                        As an aside, his mane (he has LOTS) is starting to split evenly side to side down the center... which to us is also an indication of evenness.

                        L

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          huh. uh oh!

                          Thanks Ghazzu! I still think that this does not happen with true/ correct bend; is the mane attached to the nuchal ligament? so, would the mane flip as well? See if you can get a further explanation of what causes this phenomenon
                          Last edited by Carol Ames; Sep. 21, 2009, 11:44 AM. Reason: typos
                          breeder of Mercury!

                          remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                            Flipping the crest is something that happens sometimes when bending the horse's neck. You can see the fat on the top of the horse's neck suddenly lean the opposite way, so his mane can flop over from one side of his neck to the other, if his mane is short.

                            Most people on the internet think it's a good thing and indication of correct bending. I think this came from one American instructor originally; I've yet to find it in a book like CTHR or similar works.
                            I previously posted a link to an article about this technique used by Conrad Schumacher. It was in DT several years back and can be found online at Equisearch. Mr. Schumacher is German.

                            http://www.equisearch.com/horses_rid...ontrol_061404/
                            "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Please do not let a lesson end with unanswered questions. If you do not understand, try to ask right then, or as soon as possible. You will get the most of the lesson this way.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                I normally would not let a lesson end with unanswered questions....I'm right full of them most of the time since I am just learning at the age of 43!!..... I had 3 of our 4-H kids at the house yesterday too for lessons and it was just sort of crazy for a while.....my trainer left today for a weeks vacation with her family so I couldn't even call and ask her what she meant.

                                Love the knowledge on this board and I appreciate the response that I've been given....Thanks so much!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It indicates the neck is bending, I don't think it necessarily indicates that everything is perfect, I've seen a very incorrectly going, neck bulging at the base, behind the bit, off the bit, stuck in the neck and tight, crooked in the hind quarters, falling in, tense horse ALSO flip its crest. And when he was the MOST tight in his neck and the MOST behind the bit, the crest flipped THE MOST. I've seen the crest flip when a horse is WIND SUCKING and CRIBBING, too.

                                  I think it shows what it shows, and nothing more.

                                  I think it shows the neck is bending. I think that's ALL it shows.

                                  Is it GOOD? Yes. Is it positive? Yes. We do want a horse to bend its neck. Is it EVERYTHING? No. We are hoping some other things happen along with it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Isn't pole flipping the precursor to the apocalyptic end of the earth, predicted by the Mayan's to take place in 2012?

                                    http://www.jiroolcott.com/2012.html

                                    Your horse could be a reincarnated Mayan priest, anticipating the end of times kind of like an FEI horse anticipates the tempis.

                                    Or not.

                                    More seriously, it's usually a sign of a looseness in the neck and throughness of the bending aids, but it's like "tracking up" a kind of benchmark that you can't look at by itself.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      That makes complete sense....he bends at his poll fine but not at the ribcage according to my instructor....means he's good in one place and not in another? He's not been ridden a lot since I got him so it doesn't surprise me at all. He'll get there though...we just need some time.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Unless english was not the first language, I wouldn't think a knowledgeable trainer would be referring to flipping the nuchal ligament if she said flipping the poll. Completely different things so it would be an odd thing for a knowledgeable trainer to say .

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