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Error of the Course, Error of the Test

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  • Error of the Course, Error of the Test

    This kinda goes along with my other post on whips and diagonals. To explain, I'm writing a guide for low level Pony Clubbers and their parents. This guide is specific to this particular Pony Club, so I'm tailoring it towards them.

    I'm trying to summarize Errors of the Course and Errors of the Test and having a wee bit of a problem.

    Errors of the Course -- tracking left instead of right, forgetting a movement
    Errors of the Testing -- sitting trot instead of rising trots and vice versa, cantering instead of trotting and so forth.

    Is this about right? If someone forgets a salute, is that an Error of the Test?

    Now, I don't see a "General Error" category in the rules, so where does "voice", or anything else that you can lose points for, fit in?

    Also, the bell can be rung for test and course errors, but what about other errors, ie: voice? Is that just marked down or might the judge ring the bell for it?

    Eileen
    Mad Mare™ Studio
    Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
    http://MadMare.com

  • #2
    Never seen a judge ring the bell because of use of voice. There you get a 2 point penalty. If you're off course, the bell will be rung and the judge will make an effort to get you going in the right direction. One judge told me about a time she was judging at a licensed show and a rider came in posting away in a 1st level test. She stopped the test, told them their error, and got them started again. I don't know how it was penalized but there had to be something taken off.

    The key to success? Know the rules and know your tests.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by blackhorsegirl View Post
      Never seen a judge ring the bell because of use of voice. There you get a 2 point penalty. If you're off course, the bell will be rung and the judge will make an effort to get you going in the right direction. One judge told me about a time she was judging at a licensed show and a rider came in posting away in a 1st level test. She stopped the test, told them their error, and got them started again. I don't know how it was penalized but there had to be something taken off.
      That would be an error of the test and not the course. Was the bell rung for the test error?

      The key to success? Know the rules and know your tests.
      Well, yes, and that's why I'm writing this. The Rules are very specific, but they are also difficult for non-horsey parents and small kids to understand. There's also a lot of stuff that I already "know" and take for granted that someone else may not.

      Eileen
      Mad Mare™ Studio
      Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
      http://MadMare.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        ----------- removed because I re-read the rules for the upteenth time and answered my own question. Yes, the bell is rung for test and course errors. ---------
        Mad Mare™ Studio
        Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
        http://MadMare.com

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know the answer to this, but it might be something to include.

          I saw a YR come in and start the wrong test. The bell was rung, the judge clarified which test was being ridden, the rider restarted- but the judge said there would be an error. Trainer was right there and confirmed that the YR had been misinformed as to which test she was to be riding.

          I would think that's an error of the test, since she had to restart?

          Comment


          • #6
            The judge has a lot of discretion on whetehr or not to blow the whistle on both errors of the course AND errors of the test.
            Janet

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
              I don't know the answer to this, but it might be something to include.

              I saw a YR come in and start the wrong test. The bell was rung, the judge clarified which test was being ridden, the rider restarted- but the judge said there would be an error. Trainer was right there and confirmed that the YR had been misinformed as to which test she was to be riding.

              I would think that's an error of the test, since she had to restart?
              IMO that would be an Error of the Course because she would be doing the wrong movements. She would lose 2 points for starting the wrong test.

              If she came in doing the correct test, but in a sitting instead of a rising trot, that would be an Error of the Test and she would also lose 2 points. The Judge has the option of allowing her to restart in that scenario as well. If she were well into the test and in one movement did a rising instead of sitting trot, the Judge can ring her and have her redo the movement at the sitting. She still loses 2 points.
              If she does it again in another movement, she loses 4 points.
              If again in a different movement, she's out.

              Eileen
              Mad Mare™ Studio
              Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
              http://MadMare.com

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Janet View Post
                The judge has a lot of discretion on whetehr or not to blow the whistle on both errors of the course AND errors of the test.
                Thank you. That's exactly what I read but I wanted to confirm it.


                Eileen
                Mad Mare™ Studio
                Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                http://MadMare.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  but if the judge will choose not to ring her bell, but just put the "error" on the test sheet - the judge can not give a second "error" for the same mistake (if Leg Yield is done from a wrong letter to a wrong letter on one side = judge writes an error, but doesn't ring the bell = then the other side Leg Yield has the same mistake = judge can NOT give another error, since it's judge's job to explain CLEARLY what the error was for and to try to prevent the repeat of the same error. Forgetting salute at the start and then at the end = same thing. Most important element of salute is to put BOTH reins in one hand = head nod and dropping of the arm is not as important. Salute really shows that your horse can stand still while you have your BOTH reins on ONE hand.

                  Voice is not an error - it's a deduction of points for every movement when the voice is CLEARLY heard. Make sure that it's not a rider's tack that is making that noise. Do not stop the test for that.

                  errors of the course - is not following the pattern/letters.
                  errors of the test - everything else.

                  You'll see lots of kids going of course, in your manual; try to explain clearly how to deal with that.

                  Also explain to kids that most horses are afraid of judge's booth and they should be prepared to deal with that, not be surprised and taken by it.

                  You’ll also see lots of wrong canter leads – explain how to deal with that.

                  You’ll also see lots of problems with walks. No difference between free walk and medium walk = 4 so that’s another good point to make.

                  You’ll also see lots of riders not touching corner letters when turning or doing their diagonals. Tell them to thread the yarn thru the letters to make sure that they will touch them.

                  You’ll also see lots of riders overshooting the center lines and then wobbling back to the center and ending up in a crooked halt = tell them to start their turns early, think about 8m 1/2 circle and look at X when they start turning. going TOWARD X is easier than going BACK to X after the turn.
                  Last edited by Dressage Art; Sep. 11, 2009, 12:18 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dressage Art View Post
                    but if the judge will choose not to ring her bell, but just put the "error" on the test sheet - the judge can not give a second "error" for the same mistake (if Leg Yield is done from a wrong letter to a wrong letter on one side = judge writes an error, but doesn't ring the bell = then the other side Leg Yield has the same mistake = judge can NOT give another error, since it's judge's job to explain CLEARLY what the error was for and to try to prevent the repeat of the same error.. . .
                    Lemme see if I got this --

                    If rider makes an error and judge does not ring bell/explain, error can be deducted but error can only be counted once even if it happens again.

                    If rider makes an error and judge *does* ring bell/explain blah blah and rider makes the same error again, then the error is counted again.

                    Is that what you mean?

                    From what I read/understood in the rules the error can only be counted once if it occurs more than once in the same movement, regardless if the bell is rung and error explained or not.

                    Forgetting salute at the start and then at the end = same thing. Most important element of salute is to put BOTH reins in one hand = head nod and dropping of the arm is not as important. Salute really shows that your horse can stand still while you have your BOTH reins on ONE hand.
                    Oh, most excellent point to add to guide -- object is to see if horse stands still with reins in one hand.

                    Voice is not an error - it's a deduction of points for every movement when the voice is CLEARLY heard. Make sure that it's not a rider's tack that is making that noise. Do not stop the test for that.
                    Ooof. Here I am trying to categorize this stuff for the mummies and daddies and this one has no category.

                    errors of the course - is not following the pattern/letters.
                    errors of the test - everything else.
                    Excellent and exactly what I thought.

                    You'll see lots of kids going of course, in your manual; try to explain clearly how to deal with that.
                    Yep. . . any tips/suggestions on that?

                    Also explain to kids that most horses are afraid of judge's booth and they should be prepared to deal with that, not be surprised and taken by it.
                    We covered that last night Going to be a tent, so it should prove interesting. The point of the show is to get the kids' feet wet so they know more about what to expect when they go to a "real" dressage show.

                    You’ll also see lots of wrong canter leads – explain how to deal with that.
                    Yep, we cover that in lessons. We're doing Intro for the younger kids (D1 and D2) and Training for the older ones (D3 and some adults) only, so if anyone blows leads they'll be marked "harshly"

                    You’ll also see lots of problems with walks. No difference between free walk and medium walk = 4 so that’s another good point to make.
                    Some of them are actually starting to get it! Surprised me the other day when one of the D3s -- solid jumper girl with a huge, hot gelding -- came out with a very, very respectable free walk. Dang, I was proud of her If she does that in her test it's an easy mark for her.

                    You’ll also see lots of riders not touching corner letters when turning or doing their diagonals. Tell them to thread the yarn thru the letters to make sure that they will touch them.
                    Thread the yarn? Explain?

                    You’ll also see lots of riders overshooting the center lines and then wobbling back to the center and ending up in a crooked halt = tell them to start their turns early, think about 8m 1/2 circle and look at X when they start turning. going TOWARD X is easier than going BACK to X after the turn.
                    Which test, which movement? I'm having trouble visualizing this.

                    MUCH thanks for your help with this, DA.

                    Eileen
                    Mad Mare™ Studio
                    Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                    http://MadMare.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roan View Post

                      Which test, which movement? I'm having trouble visualizing this.
                      I think she means coming into the arena up the centerline.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                        I think she means coming into the arena up the centerline.
                        Hrm, but she was referring to turns and those are straight entries up the centerline. I think she means at the end of the tests. I just wanna make sure I'm on the same page.

                        Eileen
                        Mad Mare™ Studio
                        Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                        http://MadMare.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, but you have to turn into the arena. She might mean at the end of the test but it applies to both (don't overshoot A coming up the centerline).

                          eta: We usually have a dressage arena within a larger arena at the shows here, so you're warming up outside the arena, then have to turn up centerline at A and come in. It's the first thing the judge sees, so if you overshoot you ruin your "first impression."
                          Last edited by Ambrey; Sep. 11, 2009, 07:40 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You can get eliminated for use of the voice if it is repeated. My pony was spooking at some gigantic flapping tarp, I clucked a couple times and was eliminated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              dr 122.3. Voice. The use of the voice in any way whatsoever or clicking the tongue once or re- peatedly is a serious fault involving the deduction of at least two marks from those that would otherwise have been awarded for the movement where this occurred.

                              You are not eliminated for use of the voice, it just takes (at least) -2 each time it occurs.
                              I.D.E.A. yoda

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by ideayoda View Post
                                . . .
                                You are not eliminated for use of the voice, it just takes (at least) -2 each time it occurs.
                                'Xactly. As with the person who had 2 points taken off for her diagonals, I would have protested the score.

                                Eileen
                                Mad Mare™ Studio
                                Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                                http://MadMare.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I was eliminated on the third 'cluck'. I think the judge was Channing, but I'm not sure.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                                    I was eliminated on the third 'cluck'. I think the judge was Channing, but I'm not sure.
                                    Burn the witch!

                                    That sucks. Sorry that happened, slc, it shouldn't have.

                                    Eileen
                                    Mad Mare™ Studio
                                    Custom Swarovski®, Czech glass and gemstone browbands in Circlet, Diadem and Tiara styles. Matching stock pins, bracelets and belts.
                                    http://MadMare.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Maybe she thought it was baseball? (you're OUT!)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        -2 use of voice -2 use of voice -2, eliminated.

                                        'I'm so sorry that shouldn't have happened'

                                        OOOOOOOH yes it should have. I would have given anyone a hundred bucks at that point to do something that would get me excused. 'Here! Here! Land the hot air balloon in THIS ring!!!!'

                                        Reminds me of a bike race in which me and my also-dropped pal were running around looking for thumb tacks on the shoulder of the road! 'Wagon! We got a flat! BOTH of us! Seeeee?'

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