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Speaking of critiqueing a "tube" vid

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  • Original Poster

    #21
    This is Idool and not Bonfire
    I do believe I said this was NOT Bonfire
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***

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    • #22
      Theo,

      that's the point exactly.... Dalfan WOULD, in fact, get Ahlerich and Biotop mixed up. :-)

      Groetjes,
      Siegi
      Siegi Belz
      www.stalleuropa.com
      2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
      Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Dalfan WOULD, in fact, get Ahlerich and Biotop mixed up. :-)
        Hardly, my dear.

        Why is it that people never tire of publicly character assassinating others?
        Where is the character assasination? A critisism of a riding video in the public domain is hardly that.

        Surely those that consider themselves knowledgable horsemen (regarding movement,gaits,conformation,etc) can see the tension, restriction in the shoulders preventing the hind from coming and just overall bad riding when "critiqueing" riding vids, no?

        I mean, really now, can you deny it?
        *** 4 More Years ***
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        • #24
          errr, you guys have a lot of history together, right ? A lot of unresolved issues you should maybe either talk through or get over ? I've never seen this video before, and as such it is interesting to see, discuss, and learn. Though, obviously, I'm not about to stick my head up in this particular company to get shot at. So, for a novice, this particular learning opportunity is lost.

          Dalfan, I think, stated that this is 'not Bonfire'. A useful comment, and certainly not a difficult one for you to understand, when applied to a video whose title states something to the effect that this is 'Anky' schooling 'Bonfire'.

          Someone mentioned on another thread people using the reacting rather than the thinking side of their brains. Perhaps some of us need to go out, stretch, and exhale before we approach our horses today.

          Comment


          • #25
            Dal Fan, they CAN'T deny it, so they will deflect attention. Responses will include:
            Can You Ride Grand Prix/Win a gold medal/passage like that?
            Anky takes excellent care of her horses - she loves her horses - has a fantastic seat, great timing
            It is just a moment in time - just a short video clip - she took breaks and rested the horse
            You are just jealous, hate Anky, have a chip on your shoulder
            This is a difficult horse to ride, and requires treatment like that to get that preformance
            And there there will be a whole series of personal attacks on YOU - which has already begun.

            What you will NOT get is any acknowledgement that the horses hocks are so far behind him that he has to occasionally bunny hop, the trot/piaffe/passage is extremely irregular, the 'bounce' comes from a pushing upward hip NOT an engaged hindquarter and they will NEVER admit the horse is so tense that his lips are quivering.

            I am glad this video is up on the net again, since there are people who have NOT seen hyperflexion in action, and every time this video is put out there, Someone who was 'on the fence' will get out of the middle ground and realize that Hyperflexion training sometimes means sessions like this one. And there are some of us who do not think there is Any acceptable justification for this type of riding. Sometimes Wrong is Just Wrong.

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            • #26
              Dalfan the politics and slantedness of this thread seem much more severe than in Theos thread regarding Americans not being able to take criticism and riding without collection. This thread really screams Anky bashing.

              Now, I don't like Rolkur and I am not an "Anky fan". However, honestly watching that video I was not outraged or screaming abuse. I do believe that the average horse in the US is abused worse every time it is ridden, by the rider with 50 extra lbs bouncing on its back, with the ill fitting heavy western saddle, with the uneducated reins popping it in the mouth, with the fool who owns it not knowing or caring that it is lame and unsuitable to be ridden, with the rider who has been riding for 10 plus years but never seems to progress. This video while not pretty was not abuse to me. Also, I have seen Anky ride in person a few times in competition and thought her riding was very graceful and in harmony with the horse.

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              • #27
                She looks like a veritable pogo stick up there

                If anything positive is to be learned from watching that video, yet again, it is to watch the timing of the aids, particularly the leg aids.
                Kathy Johnson

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  And there there will be a whole series of personal attacks on YOU - which has already begun.
                  Well, Monica;Equipoze, WE know that won't phase me in the least. I agree with your list of deflections the pro-rk always come up with. Just once I would like to hear one of them say what a correct and lovely picture this type of dressage makes.


                  the average horse in the US is abused worse every time it is ridden, by the rider with 50 extra lbs bouncing on its back, with the ill fitting heavy western saddle, with the uneducated reins popping it in the mouth, with the fool who owns it not knowing or caring that it is lame and unsuitable to be ridden, with the
                  I agree. However, I am a multi-tasker. I can have disdain/disgust for both.

                  to a video whose title states something to the effect that this is 'Anky' schooling 'Bonfire'.
                  Can't help what the vid says. I put "Not Bonfire" in my original post. Another deflection by some that close their eyes to the real issue.
                  *** 4 More Years ***
                  *** 4 More Years ***

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    If anything positive is to be learned from watching that video, yet again, it is to watch the timing of the aids, particularly the leg aids.
                    Possibly. But see that force she exerts with her back/hand. A lot of hand.
                    *** 4 More Years ***
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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                      Possibly. But see that force she exerts with her back/hand. A lot of hand.
                      Dalfan , please remove the link to the pictures of your riding abilities, and than I might start to take you serious

                      Theo

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                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        So, for a novice, this particular learning opportunity is lost.
                        I'm curious. As a novice, what do you see in this video?
                        *** 4 More Years ***
                        *** 4 More Years ***

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                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Dalfan , please remove the link to the pictures of your riding abilities, and than I might start to take you serious
                          Is that really ALL you have to say about your hero? If you are posting on this thread, why not stay on topic. Another deflection from a mind in denial. Tell us what is good about the video in your opinion, being the knowledgable horseman you so claim to be.

                          I think I'll keep my photos up. I rather like them. Let's see you walk the talk Thanks for taking the time to look!
                          *** 4 More Years ***
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                          • #33
                            Oh, I forgot the Other arguement
                            "There is SO much worse abuse in the world. Why worry about HF training!"
                            I Luff your 'I can multitask' response.
                            MY personal answer to the bad rider deflection is that the over weight rider bouncing along is NOT winning gold medals, and they are not Intentionally abusing or mistreaking their horse, and there is HOPE that they will improve over time. I also don't see a lot of people watching those sorts of riders and hoping to emulate them! So, while the effect on the horse is greater, the effect on All Horses is much much less.

                            This ought to be interesting - and we will see how long it gets before it ceases to be civil. I personally won't be taking part, or even get to watch. I have to fly to Ohio. No internet at the inlaws. But have fun youall!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              groaaaannnnn! This AGAIN????

                              I'm really not pro-RK or anti-RK... but I think its ridiculous that people post a link like this as "evidence" of how awful it all is. Granted, this is NOT one of Idool's better moments, but for pete's sake... he's schooling. He's clearly not relaxed and happy in the passage here, but who are YOU to say why that is? It could be for countless reasons, none of which may have to do with the RK. I've seen as much tension/tail wringing from many MANY horses who are never ridden RK.

                              If you have never had a horse swish his tail on you, or get tense, then I strongly believe you have never ridden to GP. Its easy to be principled and look down your nose at everyone when you've never had the challenges of training a horse to a really high level.

                              My goodness... with all the high horses around here, I'm amazed that you need that soapbox.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Theo, I now know why you ran into so much trouble with the "youtube" vid thread. Perhaps you gave someone a critique they didn't ask you for (you know, what you just did with my pics ).

                                I usually don't ask for critiques from people who I am not sure has the knowledge to give me "correct" feedback.
                                *** 4 More Years ***
                                *** 4 More Years ***

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  He's clearly not relaxed and happy in the passage here, but who are YOU to say why that is? It could be for countless reasons, none of which may have to do with the RK.
                                  The reason is quite obvious to me. The rider.
                                  *** 4 More Years ***
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                                  • #37
                                    ok, as a complete novice .... hmmm.. well, the horse is swishing his tail rather a lot isn't he ? And that means he's not happy, or is irritated by something ? I watched it through again, and started counting along to the trot, you know, kind of singing in rhythm to it, and there were very disctinct discontinuities in the rhythm ... I don't think that is a good thing. I think that rhythm is quite important, although I have to say, I haven't memorised that training scale thing, so perhaps rhythm is the last thing we aim for ? I'd have to look that up.

                                    Now about the outline, frame ... well, the horse looked quite 'uphill' so that's good, right ? But his head tucked in like that - it certainly detracted from teh movement, he just looked all cramped up - not flowing ? I mighthave it all wrong, but I pictured dressage as being all free moving, flowing, graceful as well as high energy. This looked like energy wasbeing offered and immediately smashed back.

                                    His little back hoofs the whole time are stamping up and down not covering any ground, in much the way my poor saddlebred filly's do, just before we found just how badly damaged her back is that makes her move like that. Aside from that, I can't tell. I don't think the horse looked happy. I don't think his movements looked smooth and flowing. I don't think he was given anything much of a release from the riders hands.

                                    I guess, I didn't like it. I don't think it's a good idea for this to be something that us novices have to aim at.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      This thread really screams Anky bashing.
                                      No. RK analysis.
                                      *** 4 More Years ***
                                      *** 4 More Years ***

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        I don't think it's a good idea for this to be something that us novices have to aim at.
                                        Thank God! All is NOT lost.

                                        I appreciate your "novice" analysis.
                                        *** 4 More Years ***
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                                        • #40
                                          Look at the pictures you posted. And look at the tail of the horse.

                                          This means fear !!!!

                                          Theo

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